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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 190 39.58%
No 244 50.83%
Unsure 46 9.58%
Voters: 480. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-12-2022, 06:09 PM
 
26,786 posts, read 22,545,020 times
Reputation: 10038

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
How sweet. You thought the sanctions would work in a week or two.
The sanctions are still piling up. The effect they have had so far will become an avalanche of problems. What, you thought Russia didn't need those 100's of billions in savings, anyway?
The boycotts - there are about 1000 companies who have boycotted Russia - are another thing. Russia is now scrambling to reinvent an auto manufacturer. There are no commercial airliners being maintained in Russia. All automobile manufacturers have left Russia and will not provide spare parts.... Enjoying that new Mercedes, are you?

And it will get worse. A lot worse.
https://www.npr.org/2022/04/22/10943...ll-yet-to-come

You know, under the normal circumstances I find all this economic stuff utterly boring, but since you go about it on and on - have at it, if you have 30 minutes to spare. ( Economy of Russia specifically ( among other Ukrainian topics) starts at 16: 04 approximately.)




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPIETVElKOw

Last edited by erasure; 06-12-2022 at 06:27 PM..
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Old 06-12-2022, 07:41 PM
bu2
 
24,094 posts, read 14,879,963 times
Reputation: 12931
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyaleWithCheese View Post
It is interesting that you are trying to frame it like it is the war and not the sanctions. If there were no sanctions and it was just a local skirmish between Ukraine and Russia, you dont actually believe that other economies would be significantly impacted.
I don't know how you don't see it. You just have a predetermined narrative.

Now Europe is impacted by energy and they do more trade with Russia than we do. But I don't see how we have any issues.

Do you not understand how much of world's wheat, sunflower oil, etc. comes through Black Sea ports?
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Old 06-12-2022, 07:42 PM
bu2
 
24,094 posts, read 14,879,963 times
Reputation: 12931
Russia was attacking neutral cargo ships in the early days of the war. Traffic has been shut down by Russia's war.
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Old 06-12-2022, 09:01 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee, WI
3,368 posts, read 2,890,666 times
Reputation: 2967
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Russia was attacking neutral cargo ships in the early days of the war. Traffic has been shut down by Russia's war.
Russia is doing what is in Russia's best interest. Vladimir Putin does not need to think about world's economy well-being. Blaming him for loss of resources by the West is like singing praises to his ears. Because in the Cold War 2, he fights the war tooth and nail and the war is not with the Ukraine.
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Old 06-12-2022, 09:48 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,570 posts, read 17,281,298 times
Reputation: 37305
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyaleWithCheese View Post
I didnt think they would ever work and they have not worked. You are taking some sort of satisfaction out of the suffering of the Russian people. That is nice. But it doesnt change the fact that the invasion has continued which means the sanctions have not worked. You can hold out hope that they will but it doesnt look to be that way.
Fortunately, you are not in a decision making position.
The people within the 40 countries who can sanction Russia have done so and they will not be changing their mind. Sanctions are here to stay.
Russia will become impoverished. Like Venezuela. And Cuba.
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Old 06-12-2022, 11:39 PM
 
4,964 posts, read 2,711,215 times
Reputation: 6948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
Fortunately, you are not in a decision making position.
The people within the 40 countries who can sanction Russia have done so and they will not be changing their mind. Sanctions are here to stay.
Russia will become impoverished. Like Venezuela. And Cuba.
Not sure about that. Russia may be too big to fail with a lot of resources to its name, and able to be mostly self-sufficient, and still able to trade with China, India, and other countries who don't have any sanctions placed on Russia. I'm sure that they prepared for this eventuality before they attacked Ukraine since such an act guaranteed sanctions from the West at a minimum. But time will tell.
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Old 06-13-2022, 06:10 AM
 
2,394 posts, read 1,065,095 times
Reputation: 3450
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyaleWithCheese View Post
I didnt think they would ever work and they have not worked. You are taking some sort of satisfaction out of the suffering of the Russian people. That is nice. But it doesnt change the fact that the invasion has continued which means the sanctions have not worked. You can hold out hope that they will but it doesnt look to be that way.
You reap what you sow.

Sanctions take time ....be patient grasshopper
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Old 06-13-2022, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Spring Hill, FL
4,298 posts, read 1,556,072 times
Reputation: 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
Russia will become impoverished. Like Venezuela. And Cuba.
The ruble is stronger now than it was in February.
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Old 06-13-2022, 07:54 AM
 
14,798 posts, read 17,683,382 times
Reputation: 9251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterbeard View Post
The ruble is stronger now than it was in February.
No it isn't. It's not even freely traded. If allowed to trade it would be worthless. Putin's fluffers have really pulled one over some people.
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Old 06-13-2022, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,826 posts, read 2,727,776 times
Reputation: 3387
Here is a good analysis from pro-Ukraine KO's on dealing with the Fog of War and calling out Ukraine on uncoordinated messaging. It also attempts to gleam through the fog the actual reality on the ground.

Ukraine update: Don't believe everything you hear; and a 'state of the war' analysis

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/202...e-war-analysis

Quote:
Either Ukraine is getting what it is requesting, or it’s not getting what it’s requesting. Me, I believe the soldiers before I believe the politicians. Either way, they’re clearly not coordinating their statements and claims. And when they do, as in both pleading for MLRS rocket artillery, it’s clear that yes, Ukraine desperately needs longer-range rocket artillery.

Information warfare is part of warfare. Information, and its ability to shift public opinions and perceptions can be more important than a M777 howitzer. It could be the difference between Germany, France, and Italy deciding they’ve done enough, and newfound urgency to deliver the heavy weaponry Ukraine needs to hold the line in Donbas, and behind the arduous task of reclaiming its lost territory.
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