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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 190 39.75%
No 242 50.63%
Unsure 46 9.62%
Voters: 478. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-13-2022, 12:03 PM
 
26,778 posts, read 22,521,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
Since their "Big Win" is invading foreign countries and controlling Europe then, yeah. My big win is stopping them.

See, the way Russia *controlled* Europe for the last 20 years was in purely economic way.

The kind of way that US controls the rest of the world.

Which seems to be OK with you, but Russia is not allowed to do the same, when it serves her interests.

My question is why do you think it's not allowed to do that?



Quote:
Russia has proven to the world that it cannot be trusted if affluent. The solution is to take away their power by impoverishing them.
No one thought the sanctions would stop this invasion. Everyone expects the sanctions to stop the NEXT invasion, though. Russia's days of being a bully are over, no matter how this conflict comes out.
Can it be trusted when it's not "affluent" then?
Like, say, back in Soviet times?
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Old 06-13-2022, 12:07 PM
bu2
 
24,070 posts, read 14,863,435 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
I can tell you for a fact during my recent travels that everybody I've talked to...across the political spectrum think that is the biggest pile of horse "puckey" they've ever heard. Nobody is buying into Russia's justifications for this war. Nobody!
A lot of Russians are. Just nobody who gets news other than from Russia government sources.

There are facts that prove that assertion wrong. I think it was a UN list that had deaths listed by month. The number of civilians killed between the first Russian invasion in 2014 and the 2nd in 2022 was small and decreasing. And the number killed by Russian mercenary armies in government controlled territory was about the same as the number killed by government artillery in Russian held territory. Those are clear facts from unbiased sources.
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Old 06-13-2022, 12:09 PM
 
8,943 posts, read 11,774,686 times
Reputation: 10870
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
I can tell you for a fact during my recent travels that everybody I've talked to...across the political spectrum think that is the biggest pile of horse "puckey" they've ever heard. Nobody is buying into Russia's justifications for this war. Nobody!
When you respond to them, I end up seeing their posts which I want to avoid.

Last edited by davidt1; 06-13-2022 at 12:18 PM..
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Old 06-13-2022, 12:18 PM
 
Location: NYC
5,208 posts, read 4,666,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
See, the way Russia *controlled* Europe for the last 20 years was in purely economic way.

The kind of way that US controls the rest of the world.

Which seems to be OK with you, but Russia is not allowed to do the same, when it serves her interests.

My question is why do you think it's not allowed to do that?



Can it be trusted when it's not "affluent" then?
Like, say, back in Soviet times?
Would you be happy if the world was divided into 3 spheres of influence between US, Russia and China? So no self determination for any other country or groups of people in the world. This was how peace was maintained between Spain and Portugal during Imperialism.
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Old 06-13-2022, 12:28 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,731,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
A lot of Russians are. Just nobody who gets news other than from Russia government sources.

There are facts that prove that assertion wrong. I think it was a UN list that had deaths listed by month. The number of civilians killed between the first Russian invasion in 2014 and the 2nd in 2022 was small and decreasing. And the number killed by Russian mercenary armies in government controlled territory was about the same as the number killed by government artillery in Russian held territory. Those are clear facts from unbiased sources.
You make no sense. What first Russian invasion?! There was none.

As I said, attempted genocide, fortunately people in the Donbass know how to defend themselves.
All in all though, 14k people were killed there. And families are used to sleeping in the basement to be safe from Ukrainian attacks.
In short, Ukraine is the only guilty party, and the world should be grateful to Russia for taking the nazi trash out - again.
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Old 06-13-2022, 12:44 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,731,689 times
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There is a paragraph on the use of the term genocide in this article by a Swiss colonel who worked for Nato in Ukraine himself:

Quote:
The dramatic developments we are witnessing today have causes that we knew about but refused to see:
- on the strategic level, the expansion of NATO (which we have not dealt with here);
- on the political level, the Western refusal to implement the Minsk Agreements;
- and operationally, the continuous and repeated attacks on the civilian population of the Donbass over the past years and the dramatic increase in late February 2022.

In other words, we can naturally deplore and condemn the Russian attack. But WE (that is: the United States, France and the European Union in the lead) have created the conditions for a conflict to break out. We show compassion for the Ukrainian people and the two million refugees. That is fine. But if we had had a modicum of compassion for the same number of refugees from the Ukrainian populations of Donbass massacred by their own government and who sought refuge in Russia for eight years, none of this would probably have happened.

Whether the term "genocide" applies to the abuses suffered by the people of Donbass is an open question. The term is generally reserved for cases of greater magnitude (Holocaust, etc.). But the definition given by the Genocide Convention is probably broad enough to apply to this case.
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Old 06-13-2022, 12:56 PM
 
26,778 posts, read 22,521,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adhom View Post
Would you be happy if the world was divided into 3 spheres of influence between US, Russia and China? So no self determination for any other country or groups of people in the world. This was how peace was maintained between Spain and Portugal during Imperialism.

In their current shape and form?

The answer is not just "NO" but hell no.

I won't even go now into all this "Russia finally needs working multi-party system," or "Capitalist China is too reminiscent of the Soviet Union," but where does it leave Europe?

The good old Europe you know, the source of it all - the culture, the laws, the church?

Europe, that shaped Russia in what it is ( as a modern state) and America in many ways.

What role Europe is going to play in the kind of world with "3 spheres of influence" that you are talking about here?
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Old 06-13-2022, 01:01 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,731,689 times
Reputation: 9728
The Ukrainian Nazis hit a maternity hospital in Donetsk today, but Western media don't mention it.
What a fuss they made about the maternity hospital hit in Mariupol, because they thought it was hit by Russia, which of course turned out a lie, it was the Azov scum.


https://t.me/sputnik/6319
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Old 06-13-2022, 01:06 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,731,689 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adhom View Post
Would you be happy if the world was divided into 3 spheres of influence between US, Russia and China? So no self determination for any other country or groups of people in the world. This was how peace was maintained between Spain and Portugal during Imperialism.
What do you mean by self-determination?

I think countries should stay out of other countries' neighborhood, though. Especially if they are from another continent. Else it is simply imperialism...

I assume people don't talk about it in Western media, but Russia is doing the right thing now, they are very busy pushing the integration of that central Asian union thingy, that includes many of those countries ending in -stan. I think gradually a new version of the Soviet Union is being reborn, albeit it not communist in nature, but slightly socialist.
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Old 06-13-2022, 01:17 PM
 
5,725 posts, read 2,190,327 times
Reputation: 3871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
The Ukrainian Nazis hit a maternity hospital in Donetsk today, but Western media don't mention it.
What a fuss they made about the maternity hospital hit in Mariupol, because they thought it was hit by Russia, which of course turned out a lie, it was the Azov scum.


https://t.me/sputnik/6319
Shelling civilians in Donetsk, yet Zelensky is saying he will never give up the Donbass, so he’s shelling his own people. This feels like Ukraine is flailing to me, they can’t use that ammo on military targets? They complain constantly to NATO for more weapons and ammo while they’re lobbing shells into civilian areas.
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