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My high school kid comes home and says "I was talking to Bob today and he says he wants to shoot people in school'. What happens next?
We go to the school and say Bob said he is going to shoot up the school. School calls in Bob's parents and they A) do nothing, B) have in put in a 3 day psych eval and say Bob is very smart and he convinces the psych ward he is ok and gets released to his parents. What next?
Or some homeless guy gets a gun and goes and shoots people in a mall because he's schizophrenic. The police have had several encounters with him but he keeps getting put back out the streets after each arrest. He has no friends or family so there is no one making sure he takes his meds.
We no longer commit people who have mental health issues. Who is going to be the person in the system who makes sure people get the care they are needing? No one. No one is going to. This is why shootings won't stop.
How are you going to commit people who didnt commit any crime? I know the right wingers try to deflect from gun control by blabbing out "mental health" but I am not aware of a manner in which they wish to deal with mental health that would be useful and agreeable to them.
I would say that the priority should have been to ban fires in Australia.
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Originally Posted by odinloki1
So turn the schools into more of a prison? Let’s get rid of windows in classrooms so shooters can’t take shots at kids. Let’s put brick walls around the playgrounds, or even better just end recess so kids can’t be targets.
But heaven forbid we make it harder to have a gun. We can’t make life harder for gun owners.
How would you propose that one makes it harder to have a gun? Just think about what you have implied there. One third of American household have guns. About a million homes with guns. By what you seem to be implying, there should be about a million mass shootings every so often. The reality is that there are actually very few mass shootings in the US. Very few is still too many of course. The thing is, these people who carry out the mass shootings usually are not legally in possession of the guns they use.
This thread is NOT about gun control. It's about mental health.
Australia and England have strict gun control and better mental health treatment. Australia ranked #10, England ranked #21...AMERICA one of the worst...not even on the list!!
My high school kid comes home and says "I was talking to Bob today and he says he wants to shoot people in school'. What happens next?
We go to the school and say Bob said he is going to shoot up the school. School calls in Bob's parents and they A) do nothing, B) have in put in a 3 day psych eval and say Bob is very smart and he convinces the psych ward he is ok and gets released to his parents. What next?
Or some homeless guy gets a gun and goes and shoots people in a mall because he's schizophrenic. The police have had several encounters with him but he keeps getting put back out the streets after each arrest. He has no friends or family so there is no one making sure he takes his meds.
We no longer commit people who have mental health issues. Who is going to be the person in the system who makes sure people get the care they are needing? No one. No one is going to. This is why shootings won't stop.
The issue with mental health is that groups fighting for the rights of the mentally ill to be released from the mental hospitals got the patients out and on the street. The deal was that they would receive outpatient care, but that didn't happen. Many of the homeless are mentally ill, and they don't take their medication, probably some can't remember and others choose not to take it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by odinloki1
So turn the schools into more of a prison? Let’s get rid of windows in classrooms so shooters can’t take shots at kids. Let’s put brick walls around the playgrounds, or even better just end recess so kids can’t be targets.
But heaven forbid we make it harder to have a gun. We can’t make life harder for gun owners.
Guns will always be easy to get with the open border, just of a poorer quality. If there is market for something, someone will fill the need. So much trouble comes from within the walls of the mega schools as no one knows anyone that well.
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Originally Posted by Fisherman99
America needs to do this like Australia too!
Yeah, no.
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Originally Posted by mkpunk
But here is the thing: a car, a bomb and a knife are NOT used in America like you typically see in the rest of the civilized world. Guns are used in American mass attacks. What you are saying is a straw argument because it is irrelevant.
"Knife-related violence has been on the rise worldwide since 2014. One of the main factors cited in this growth is the fact that knives are simply more widely available, being both cheaper and much easier to obtain than firearms."
"Most recently, targets for these knife attacks have included schools and shopping centers. Last June, knife-wielding assailants killed nine policemen and 17 civilians at a police station in Lukqun Township in Xinjiang."
You'll find where there is gun control, murders by knives are extremely popular. So then, you would want to take the knives away. And, the only people that would knives and guns would be criminals, and worse yet, our government.
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Originally Posted by Grlzrl
This thread is NOT about gun control. It's about mental health.
"TUESDAY, June 15, 2021 (HealthDay News) -- A new study finds that many mass shooters in America suffered from a mental illness that wasn't being treated when they committed their crime."
Quote:
Originally Posted by odinloki1
Mental health is expensive. It’s better PR just to ignore them until the law is broken then lock them up
I don't know about the other states, but KS has mental health clinics in even the smaller of towns. Lots of money is spent, BUT you cannot force someone to seek help, and many people simply will not.
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Originally Posted by Williepaws
very true. but the neighbors and the community know theres a problem. sometimes the schools know too and nothing is done by anyone. They all shrug their shoulders and say we cant force mental health care on anyone. And society refuses to pay for it so innocent people suffer.
Exactly! How many times have we heard, after the fact, that the student had been posting online what he was going to do? Parents generally don't want to deal with the issue, and would tend to be hostile toward the school. We would not want to make the student uncomfortable by discussing the death threats they are making online now, would we?
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Originally Posted by stone26
Why do you automatically assume it’s mental health?
"They discovered that only 11% of all mass murderers (including shooters) and only 8% of mass shooters had a serious mental illness. They also found that mass shooters in the United States were more likely to have legal histories, use recreational drugs, abuse alcohol, and have histories of non-psychotic psychiatric or neurologic symptoms."
So, who wants to legalize all recreational drug use for the benefit of society? And, even when we had no groceries on the shelves, the liquor stores were open and fully stocked! I do wonder, and I do remember that some of the shooters were on prescription medications. Let's keep guns legal to protect ourselves from these types of people. Whatever their issue, we need to protect ourselves from them!
The mental health system is very broken. It's also a very complicated problem. In many cases it's too light on actual help and too heavy on meds to try and control thoughts and behavior. There also is a generic checklist hierarchy of interventions that need to take place that often is dictated by the insurance companies. Many needing help get frustrated and discouraged in the process and end up giving up. There's also the reality of many not having insurance, not being able to afford the meds, and not having any personal support system.
For kids school counselors and support staff are often the first contacts for the children having trouble. The number of children needing mental health assistance is significant. Due to the sheer volume, as well as economics, too often this responsibility falls on schools to provide programs and counseling to address the needs of the students. Unfortunately, most are not licensed professionals and lack the proper training and background to properly diagnose and develop an appropriate treatment plan for the child.
This thread is NOT about gun control. It's about mental health.
OK, thanks for bringing back on topic.
Not a lot of homeless dudes shooting up malls. Not a lot of obviously schizophrenic people shooting up schools. Most shooters seem perfectly normal to others, or maybe have shown some odd behavior but nothing overt. You want us to commit every kid who acts a little off? There aren't enough hospitals in the world to hold the number of people who seem strange at some point in their life.
The U.S. abandoned mental hospitals starting in the early '80s. Federal funds were cut to state mental hospitals, forcing closures, and the assumption was communities would take on the burden. Hasn't worked out so well.
"Knife-related violence has been on the rise worldwide since 2014. One of the main factors cited in this growth is the fact that knives are simply more widely available, being both cheaper and much easier to obtain than firearms."
"Most recently, targets for these knife attacks have included schools and shopping centers. Last June, knife-wielding assailants killed nine policemen and 17 civilians at a police station in Lukqun Township in Xinjiang."
You'll find where there is gun control, murders by knives are extremely popular. So then, you would want to take the knives away. And, the only people that would knives and guns would be criminals, and worse yet, our government.
.
Give us a break. No way one guy with a knife is going to be able to kill more than one or two victims before they either escape or tackle him.
I was talking to a friend last week. She said a kid in her daughter's friend group had been sent away to one of those troubled teen behavior places. She threatened to kill her parents. She threatened my friend's daughter. I asked if she had talked to the parents or reported it to school. She said no. Because then what? School would do nothing. Her parents would tell the girl and my friend's kid would be even more threatened by the girl. Now, it's rare a girl does a shooting but it happened once, I think. But people just think someone else will take care of it and they don't know what to do. I am sure if she had called the police, they would say they can't do anything unless she commits a crime.
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