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Old 05-28-2022, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Michigan
5,654 posts, read 6,217,411 times
Reputation: 8242

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enough_Already View Post
The democrats create debt with waste while republicans create debt to spur economic growth by leaving the money earned by people and business in their hands so they can invest and spend.
And Libertarians would challenge the amount we spend on the military outside the U.S. The debt is a huge problem, period, no partisan spin needed. I'm an independent so not defending. One of the reasons I am independent is the fact that I see both major parties failing.
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Old 05-28-2022, 09:55 PM
 
Location: Sector 001
15,946 posts, read 12,287,130 times
Reputation: 16109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
The national debt is going to destroy the United States


...if the 2 million illegal aliens per year invasion, unlimited printing of fiat money, and constantly letting criminals out of jail less than a day after they commit their crimes, don't destroy it first.

Its like a perfect storm. Those who are the least productive are breeding the most, and they let in more all the time, gambling that some of them will work, and yes a lot of them have good work ethics, but we don't have room to house those that don't without higher housing prices for all of us.

I think we are going to have to get used to reduced purchasing power as the new normal. Housing will remain unaffordable for many in high demand areas. Supply chain issues may be the new normal, along with higher energy prices, at least with the people running things now. They don't want the bottom 90% having a 4 bedroom house with 3 cars and a boat in the driveway. If the entire planet had that, Tue carbon footprint in their eyes would be immense, so its reserved for the top 10%.

MMT is also the new normal. If they manage it alright it could work.... Time will tell. The debt will get ever higher... The ratio of working class to elderly and government dependents will gradual increase. Will inflation stay high? Wages keep up? Time will tell.

Increasing the male/female ratio in the country will also bring consequences.
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Old 05-28-2022, 10:17 PM
 
18,802 posts, read 8,469,715 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enough_Already View Post
Take the total debt and divide that number by the population. Is each democrat prepared to write a check for their share?
Why would they? It is not their burden. Their burden is federal income tax.
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Old 05-29-2022, 12:43 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,025 posts, read 14,205,095 times
Reputation: 16747
https://www.usdebtclock.org/
MAY 2022
● US NAT DEBT : $30.475 T
● FEDERAL SPENDING : 6.262 T
● TAX REVENUES : 4.218 T
● FEDERAL DEFICIT : 2.043 T (borrowed)
DEBT SERVICE : 0.562 T (creditors paid with borrowed funds!)
(Wait, whoa, what? “Old” investors are being paid with “New” investor funds. That’s what Bernie Madoff was sent to prison for doing in the private sector)
It get’s worse.
Since all DOLLAR BILLS are borrowed, at usury, into existence, CONgress must first have a deficit to authorize their issue.

And this insanity cannot be questioned, pursuant to clause 4, 14th amendment, USCON.
“ The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law... shall not be questioned.”

There it is. An impossible to repay public debt that CANNOT be questioned.

WHY IS IT IMPOSSIBLE?
Well, there's not enough "dollar bills" in existence or in circulation. Remember, Federal reserve notes are IOUs (debt) denominated in dollars, but have a minus value until redeemed. CONgress repudiated redeeming them in 1933. They're worthless.

https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h41/current/
Search report for “currency in circulation”
Federal Reserve Banks . . . May 18, 2022
$2,273,025,000,000

Where's all that "too much money chasing too few goods" causing inflation?
Frankly, when folks try to "cash out" their accounts, it will be a bloodbath.

IT GETS WORSE - - -

The debt, in dollars, really means "gold" dollars (like $20 double eagles). Coining all the world's gold, pursuant to the Coinage Act of 1792, only amounts to $120 billion DOLLARS. . . to pay off a 30,000 billion dollar debt?
Even if the debt and interest was frozen, it would take over 7000 years at current mining rates to PAY OFF THE DEBT.

To the POINT :
[] It is impossible to pay off the debt in
_ _ DOLLARS (gold or silver coin),or
_ _ in dollar bills (worthless IOUs authorized by deficit spending, but not redeemable by CONgress)

[] The fraudulent debt is underwritten by 330+ million "Human Resources" via FICA
[] When the creditor comes a-calling, YOU and YOURS can be legally confiscated as collateral

Oh wait, that's how the whole socialist insecurity scam operates - a NEW TAX is enacted in the midst of the Great Depression - allegedly to "give relief" - but in truth, is the "Vig" to placate the creditor. For 87 years, the creditor has been getting a healthy skim (debt service) paid for by the muggles who are skinned alive and must be grateful that they're allowed to regrow their skin before being skinned again.

AND IT IS ALL VOLUNTARY, SAITH THE LAW.

OK. What happens if 97% of Americans decide to WITHDRAW CONSENT.
_ _ 97% of the subjects and their revenue just "walked away"
_ _ And suddenly, the national debt has insufficient collateral... and "dollar bills" cease to be legal tender on those 97% (they have a RIGHT to refuse worthless securities). Overnight, billionaires become zero-aires. International trade, denominated in USD, comes to a crashing halt (until a new agreement is worked out)
_ _ Millions of recipients are cut off - no more freebies from Uncle Sugar.

THAT'S IT, IN A NUTSHELL

We're [bleeped] if we do nothing, and double [bleeped] if we do something.
Amending the USCON, to eliminate clause 4, 14th amendment, will cause a collapse, because it is a simple matter to challenge the 30+ trillion "national" debt as fraud. CONgress was never lent "dollars" (GOLD). And being lent their own IOUs is -well- INSANE.

But that's the nature of USURY (charging interest), an abomination denounced for "only" 3500 years.
Sor-ree.


<<It's going to be like - - the collapse of the Cryptocurrency scam - - only affecting far more people.>>

Last edited by jetgraphics; 05-29-2022 at 01:01 AM..
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Old 05-29-2022, 01:14 AM
 
1,655 posts, read 775,535 times
Reputation: 2042
Perhaps empires like the US are meant to self destruct at some point as they grow bigger and bigger and feel like nothing will ever stop them?

It seems the political attitude towards debt mirrors the attitudes of most citizens towards their own debt…yuck, just block it out, don’t think about it, spend, spend, spend.
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Old 05-29-2022, 05:01 AM
 
4,994 posts, read 1,991,802 times
Reputation: 2866
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrowGirl View Post
And Libertarians would challenge the amount we spend on the military outside the U.S. The debt is a huge problem, period, no partisan spin needed. I'm an independent so not defending. One of the reasons I am independent is the fact that I see both major parties failing.

There are problems with both parties but the debt is primarily a democrat created problem. The difference in ideology between the two parties is huge especially related to the debt and the economy. They are mutually exclusive.
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Old 05-29-2022, 05:02 AM
 
4,994 posts, read 1,991,802 times
Reputation: 2866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Why would they? It is not their burden. Their burden is federal income tax.

Because that debt has to be paid at some point. The current amount of debt is not sustainable.
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Old 05-29-2022, 05:24 AM
 
Location: Flyover part of Virginia
4,218 posts, read 2,457,532 times
Reputation: 5066
It's not just the US national debt that's the problem. The total global debt is well over $300T (prior to the 08' crisis, it was under $100T). Over-leverage in the system is what I believe will one day lead to the entire global financial system simply "freezing." We will wake up one day to find the banks closed indefinitely, and the ATMs out of service, and no one will have seen it coming.
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Old 05-29-2022, 05:32 AM
 
Location: Flyover part of Virginia
4,218 posts, read 2,457,532 times
Reputation: 5066
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enough_Already View Post
There are problems with both parties but the debt is primarily a democrat created problem. The difference in ideology between the two parties is huge especially related to the debt and the economy. They are mutually exclusive.
The debt has been increasing more-or-less continuously since 1930, regardless of who controls the Whitehouse and Congress. The debt has nothing to do with political party, and everything to do with trying to offset energy/resource depletion to continue living far beyond our means. The Democrats and Republicans, liberals and conservatives, the left and the right, as well as the general public, are all utterly complicit. No one wants fiscal restraint, because that would mean immense sacrifice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enough_Already View Post
Because that debt has to be paid at some point. The current amount of debt is not sustainable.
The massively unsustainable debt will not be paid, but it will be repudiated- if not through mass defaults, then through hyperinflation.
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Old 05-29-2022, 05:37 AM
 
Location: Flyover part of Virginia
4,218 posts, read 2,457,532 times
Reputation: 5066
Quote:
Originally Posted by sholomar View Post
Its like a perfect storm. Those who are the least productive are breeding the most, and they let in more all the time, gambling that some of them will work, and yes a lot of them have good work ethics, but we don't have room to house those that don't without higher housing prices for all of us.

I think we are going to have to get used to reduced purchasing power as the new normal. Housing will remain unaffordable for many in high demand areas. Supply chain issues may be the new normal, along with higher energy prices, at least with the people running things now. They don't want the bottom 90% having a 4 bedroom house with 3 cars and a boat in the driveway. If the entire planet had that, Tue carbon footprint in their eyes would be immense, so its reserved for the top 10%.

MMT is also the new normal. If they manage it alright it could work.... Time will tell. The debt will get ever higher... The ratio of working class to elderly and government dependents will gradual increase. Will inflation stay high? Wages keep up? Time will tell.

Increasing the male/female ratio in the country will also bring consequences.
The "new normal" will be the total and permanent collapse of the entire global financial system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
IMO this forms the basis of how we fund massive needs moving forward. And how it does not have to be anyone's undoing.

The basic points are that the Fed can create money from nothing and purchase any amount of federal debt. That doesn't mean that they do, it means that they can. That debt can potentially be held into perpetuity. And when the Fed owns that debt, almost all its interest received is swept back to the Treasury. This went on post-2008 crash, sans inflation and now since Covid/Trump 2020, with inflation.

So far the ticking time bomb of debt has been nominal. Compared to 1988, with nominal inflation, our interest payments are our national debt are similar. And our debt/GDP also remains nominal.

https://mythfighter.com/2009/11/24/f...ing-time-bomb/

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/...ir_expense.htm

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYOIGDA188S
Do you understand that perpetual debt expansion is impossible in a finite realm? Eventually, something has to give. And something will give.

Central bank "magic" can only go so far.
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