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Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanJuanStar
Then raise Armed Services to 21 and treat them as minors until 21 under all laws including contracts and responsibility. You treat them as minors in all criminal and civil laws until 21.
You can't have it both ways. You can say their brains at 18 are not fully developed to exercise their 2nd amendment rights but their brains are good enough to go overseas to fight, defend other's borders and die.
That's a lot of young bodies from 18 to 21 years old that the Pentagon are going to miss, males and females. When I went to Boot Camp in 1990 in the Navy, my company was about 82 recruits and most of us were 18-21 (I was 19) and 5 that were 17.
That means NO military recruitment in High School and hands off from college students from 18 to 21.
See how the 21 year old push dies quick.
Option 2: raise age of purchase for all guns to 21 but with an exception for active / honorably discharged military who are 18 to 20.
So many small things went wrong at Uvalde. First, suspect was able to jump over a chain link fence. Then an auto locking door failed to lock. In the classroom where all died the teacher was at her desk and got an email about the active shooter, immediately turned off a movie and was walking to close and lock the door when seconds earlier the shooter already got in. I found a photo of the room with teachers and students taken a month before the shooting and the teachers desk were on the far side from the door. Perhaps you could require all teachers desks be located next to the door? Who knows if it would help in another rare event like this... but in this case that was the difference between 0 dead and 21 dead.
We should have doors or barriers that can be locked down from a central location in every school, in my opinion. The fact that the school used email to communicate the presence of a school shooter is mind boggling. There should have been a siren and an intercom announcement at the least.
Option 2: raise age of purchase for all guns to 21 but with an exception for active / honorably discharged military who are 18 to 20.
How do you get an honorable discharge at 18 or 20? I can see a medical or administrative discharge without completing your enlistment contract but I had to sign for 5 years active in 1990 and most of my shipmates signed 4 years and to go to nuclear submarine school in Orlando it was 6 year enlistment and last time I read you had to me at least 3 years active to get a honorable discharge.
Here is the problem, the 2nd amendment is a constitutional right for every legal adult and being in the military isn't. If you are a legal adult under the law they can't take your constitutional rights without cause.
How do you get an honorable discharge at 18 or 20? I can see a medical or administrative discharge without completing your enlistment contract but I had to sign for 5 years active in 1990 and most of my shipmates signed 4 years and to go to nuclear submarine school in Orlando it was 6 year enlistment and last time I read you had to me at least 3 years active to get a honorable discharge.
Here is the problem, the 2nd amendment is a constitutional right for every legal adult and being in the military isn't. If you are a legal adult under the law they can't take your constitutional rights without cause.
I think the Army has two year contracts? Air Force is four.
Last I checked, a Democrat was in office and has the power to write executive orders on any gun law he chooses yet refuses to do so.
"A lot of the powers the President has deals with the extent to which and how he enforces existing laws rather than creating new laws and regulations," said legal analyst Dan Eaton.
For example, President Biden can direct existing infrastructure like the background check system to operate differently, or use trade policies to control how many guns wind up on our streets.
Following the San Bernardino shooting in 2015, President Obama took certain executive actions, including requiring that the social security administration turn over records of people deemed mentally ill to the federal background check system.
He also ordered the ATF be more aggressive in enforcing a law requiring people who are "engaged in the business" of selling firearms to conduct background checks.
Beyond that, Eaton said, you need congressional support.
I think the Army has two year contracts? Air Force is four.
I was never in the Army but know a lot of soldiers and it's the same principle as the Navy & Marines (same department). The standard is 4 years with 4 years reserves. The Army isn't going to train you , feed you, give you medical and dental care and pay your GI Bill (4 year college) if the majority of the Army enlistments are going to give them just 2 years. They want their investment back. I had to sign for 5 because I had a little over a year of A school before going to the fleet and they wanted me to serve 4 years active in the fleet (and 4 years reserves after to just get in the Navy.) My shipmates in Boot Camp that went to Nuke school had to sign for 6 years because there school training was 2 years. Uncle Sam wants their investment back. I don't blame them.
Another thing, not all jobs in the military requires you to qualify to shoot a rifle . I can see it mostly in the Army and Marines but not the Air-Force or Navy. I never touch a riffle in the Navy (I did handguns in Boot Camp and land survival training) but when you are hunting Soviet Nuclear Submarines on the P-3 Orion squadrons across the ocean then a riffle is about useless as t!ts on a bull to do your job and the Navy wasn't to spend time or money to train me on a weapon I will never use.
Your honorable discharge proposal to buy guns has holes.
So many small things went wrong at Uvalde. First, suspect was able to jump over a chain link fence. Then an auto locking door failed to lock. In the classroom where all died the teacher was at her desk and got an email about the active shooter, immediately turned off a movie and was walking to close and lock the door when seconds earlier the shooter already got in. I found a photo of the room with teachers and students taken a month before the shooting and the teachers desk were on the far side from the door. Perhaps you could require all teachers desks be located next to the door? Who knows if it would help in another rare event like this... but in this case that was the difference between 0 dead and 21 dead.
So what do you propose to prevent that? Should the schools be surrounded by 15 foot high fences topped with razor wire? What if the shooter cuts through the fence, or crashes a car through it?
Sandy Hook Elementary School had a locked secured door, but the shooter still got through it with no problem.
School security is a waste of money, that will never prevent one shooting. One thing and one thing ONLY will prevent school shootings, and EVERYBODY knows what that one thing is. I don't have to even say it. Everything else is just a diversionary tactic.
No. Driving a vehicle on public roads is neither a protected right nor a necessity. It’s a privilege that is granted by the government which you can lose if you break the law. Any of the rights protected by the Bill of Rights, though, should be protected equally at whatever age we as a society decide adulthood begins. Yes, that means if we lower voting age to 16 as some have suggested then we should allow firearms purchase at the age of 16.
ETA: I live in Florida, where it is now illegal to buy a firearm until 21. I disagree with that law for the exact reason I stated. A protected right is a protected right, and all protected rights should be treated equally.
First off, driving is a right not a privilege. Everything is a right unless it's prohibited by law. But that doesn't matter. Because all rights, including the Bill of Rights have limitations.
You can't shout fire in a crowded theater, you can't slander other people, you can't have a religion where you sacrifice human beings, etc. Likewise the Second Amendment can have any number of limitations placed on it, and no not all rights have to be protected equally at the same age. Age limits have to be set accordingly to the maturity level needed for that activity. A 16 year old voting can't harm anyone. A 16 year old with an assault rifle can harm a lot of people. Which is a violation of those people's rights. Your rights end where somebody else's begins.
I gave you the name of the bill and the years in which I knew of it being introduced and blocked because I assumed that you wouldn’t know about it and perhaps would like to research it since it is germane to the topic of school shootings. Half of my assumption seems to have been incorrect, considering that you admit to not knowing it yet you didn’t bother to research it.
Dismiss it? is that the only options you are giving? Go tear up the 2nd amendment, confiscate millions of guns and put lots of people in jail or dismiss it. Both are bad ideas. Republicans are not pushing to defund the police or makes their jobs harder to prevent or investigate.
We did overreact after 9/11. We invaded the wrong country that resulted in the deaths of over 1.2 million people over 2 trillion dollars spending. Yeah, that is a good trade, 1.2 million deaths with a tag of 2 trillion dollars over 3,000 deaths.
Everybody in Oklahoma were caught and punished and last time I read it involved bombs. We didn't dismissed it but We didn't shredded the constitution or made matters worse by creating a Civil War with law abiding citizens.
Conservatives have proposals but your side doesn't like them. Big difference.
You were trying to make a case that these guns cause just a small percentage of deaths, that is not reasonable in any way.
What are the conservative proposals other than anything but gun restrictions. They have no interest in simple things like banning AR-15's for 18 year olds and universal background checks and reverting to their one door proposal.
Last edited by Goodnight; 06-05-2022 at 06:51 PM..
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