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Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 7 days ago)
35,629 posts, read 17,961,729 times
Reputation: 50652
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haksel257
Really? Sounds a little wasteful to destroy a perfectly good building! Turn it into something that helps the community. Am I missing something?
They had already made the decision that the kids and teachers wouldn't return, it is too traumatic, but I kind of agree with repurposing it as an administration building with a plaque or statue paying respects to those who were gunned down.
On the other hand, it was built in 1955 and really looks dated and tired.
It's called risk management. No other weapon can kill as many people as fast as a fully automatic or semi-automatic firearm. Except really big explosive devices and those materials are highly regulated. Firearms should be at least as well regulated as those explosive materials are.
Also it doesn't take much intelligence to kill people with a firearm. Probably no IQ is too low. To kill a large number of people by any other means would take an above average intelligence and probably education. But the type of people who would do this type of thing tend not to be the sharpest tools in the shed.
In short guns are the problem, not “other things”. As a society we need to solve problems, not non-problems.
It's not hard to buy diesel and fertilizer to make explosives.
1. Was the door locked? If it wasn't, I personally think the officers on the scene should be charged with some serious crimes.
2. Did an active shooter alert reach the community? I read before that the teacher in the classroom got an alert over email, now they are saying that the alert may not have been communicated through RAPTOR at all.
3. Were officers informed of 911 calls from inside the room? I'm not sure this one matters in the long run, since the officers were too cowardly to breach anyway.
4. Were responding officers appropriately trained? I think we know the answer to this one, since the responding officers did everything except what the training tells them to.
5. Are law enforcement official cooperating with the investigation? Nobody knows. We know that the city of Uvalde is avoiding FOIA requests like they're the plague.
From everything I've read about this shooting, it still looks like a FUBAR of epic proportions by every agency involved. City, state, and federal all had a hand in making this a much worse situation than it could have been.
1. Officers on the scene were trained to only do as ordered by the scene commander. That policy is in place to prevent confusion, friendly fire, and units operating against each other without knowing it.
3. No, officers were not informed of the 911 calls. The scene commander had not brought his radio with him, and has tossed out a few bad excuses for why.
4. The officers were trained. Part of that training is to follow the orders of the on scene commander, who told them to do nothing. The scene commander is responsible for the delays.
5. Some LEOs are cooperating. Some are not.
The agency that failed the most was the Uvalde ISD Police Department, which had control of the scene.
Am I the only one who feels sorry for the Uvalde police officers? Their response was not good but this was such an unprecedented event. They weren’t prepared. Most police depts like theirs may have reacted similarly. It’s a tragedy and their lives will never be the same either. I’m sure some of them have little desire to live at this point.
Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 7 days ago)
35,629 posts, read 17,961,729 times
Reputation: 50652
Quote:
Originally Posted by msRB311
Am I the only one who feels sorry for the Uvalde police officers? Their response was not good but this was such an unprecedented event. They weren’t prepared. Most police depts like theirs may have reacted similarly. It’s a tragedy and their lives will never be the same either. I’m sure some of them have little desire to live at this point.
You make a good point. I have felt the same way, somewhat. In between being baffled that the leadership made so many gross, unforgivable errors.
I think almost no police departments would have reacted this way, but the chain of command utterly failed.
But, yes, I see your point about the rank and file.
No, they aren't. We've had ownership of firearms in this country for our entire history. The AR-15 has been available to the public since the 1960s. School shootings such as we've seen recently are a relatively new phenomenon. Considering the plethora of firearms, it's obvious that something else is contributing to the fairly recent violence problem.
I started collecting firearms in the 1980's when AR-15 cost $500 that was like $1500 today. Most of the group I went shooting with and gun shows didn't have military style guns. I remember after the movie lethal weapon, and Die Hard where showed lot of firearms never seen before. Like the H&K MP5, HK P7M13, Steyr AUG I started to see more of them. Friend of mine bought a FN-FAL that started us down the road of military style weapons. Today AR-15's so cheap build one for less then $400 last 20 years so become so common. The mentally insane want something makes them feel powerful. I don't see how anything can be done other then find a way to stop the mentally insane from being able to buy firearms.
Not remotely, and their response was appealing at best. They use 40% of the town’s budget, have a large swat team for a town of only ~16k, and had apparently “trained” in that very building for this exact type of situation. To call their actions “grossly incompetent” would be an understatement.
Not to mention they’ve been caught in lie after lie about what really happened.
Exactly.
I don't feel one bit sorry for those cowards that stood by while the kids got executed. It seemed like every few days the narrative changed trying to keep up with the lies being continually exposed (and it's still changing as we speak). It just boggles my mind that those officers stood right outside the classroom, hearing gunshots, hearing the kids inside, and making a conscious decision to just stand there and blame it on leadership after the fact. The parents of those kids were screaming to be let through to try and save them by comparison.
I've seen multiple law enforcement and security experts stating that those cops did not follow proper protocol, so it's definitely not true that many police departments would have acted in the same manner. In fact several weeks after the Uvalde shooting, police in Dallas shot and killed an active shooter who got into a summer camp with 250 kids. The city spends a significant portion of their budget on the police force, and that includes training on active school shooter scenarios.
It is not surprising that the city council had to put arredondo on leave. That azz had no qualms about taking the oath to become city council member just a few days after the shooting. He truly is an evil monster with no conscience or decency, and I guarantee he lost no sleep over his cowardice. He would rather lie and try to cover things up than offer any sincere words of comfort to the families of the children executed.
This has been mentioned before, but needs to be mentioned again and again.
So yeah, among the first of the narratives after the shooting was that officers were waiting for proper gear in order to enter the classrooms. And then it became, the officers were waiting for the keys to open the door since it was locked. Next was that the officers were delayed trying to find the right key to open the door since there were so many keys (and next thing you know, it was chief arredondo that claimed he was the one that was trying the keys one by one).
But wait, now apparently the door was unlocked the entire time, contradicting all previous claims about the door being locked. Logical conclusion being, no one even checked the door. Yeah, they were ALL cowards every single one of them. And it looks like DFS officers were on the scene as well and did nothing. How in the world can this department continue to make such outrageous lies? There should be way more outrage about this, but like I said it's our social media generation that quickly latches onto the next big media story. I totally agree with a previous poster that said this was one of the biggest failures ever of law enforcement in this country.
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