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Old 06-10-2022, 11:04 AM
 
20,459 posts, read 12,379,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklazona Bound View Post
I am not a donkey or an elephant.

If you look up the stats on gun violence by states do it yourself you will find red states at the top. And the deaths per 100K of the top ones are worse that all but a few US cities.
first of all, my quick search shows conflating suicide by gun with "gun violence"

wasnt able to find data that separates it.

 
Old 06-10-2022, 11:08 AM
 
30,159 posts, read 11,789,790 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
what percentage of Mississippi's issue is in Jackson? Which is a dem controlled city.

Louisiana has 3 cities that have ungodly crime. NOLA, Baton Rouge and Shreveport. they account for a huge portion of Louisiana's population and their crime drives up the whole state.

As for Chicago, drive those numbers down to zip codes. Im betting you have vast swaths of middle class areas called "Chicago" with virtually no crime and a handful that have crime rates as high or higher than pretty much any murderous "red state"
Wyoming? Alaska? Even Idaho has about the same gun deaths per capita as Chicago. Of course wealthier areas have much less crime. But you just move the target when the facts don't back up your point.

Blue cities and the way they govern have an end result of more crime and deaths by firearms. No doubt. But the inconvenient truth is red stats without big inner cites also have lots of gun deaths.
 
Old 06-10-2022, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Southern MN
12,040 posts, read 8,418,487 times
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I just want to comment on the notion that throwing money at the problem will fix it. I'd like to address the issue from a psychological point of view. And I wish more lawmakers could do the same.

Part of the United States has a culture which believes that people you have problems with deserve to be shot. It's an antisocial and civilly destructive principle that they live and die by. Hard for the rest of us to understand but true.

No amount of improvement in their food, clothing or living environment is going to change their belief system. That is a mental health problem with legal ramifications. It also contributes to impoverishing families.

Poor people who grew up without the notion that shooting people is a problem-solving lifestyle rarely start shooting people if they become more poor. And if they do it's usually their families and themselves they annihilate.

It's a mentality.

This is an issue that other cultures are not going to be able to fix. Not because they don't have the tools to help but because the gangster culture believes that they can't help. Law-abiding helpers of other cultures don't have the "street cred" that gives gangs faith in them.

It is literally impossible to go into someone's neighborhood and announce you are there to help straighten them all up. LOL. Even when they are demanding it.

Something that I see happening and am encouraged by is watching young people of color who have escaped the self-defeating lifestyle, gotten an education and gone back to help others see the way to change. They have a credibility which the mainstream culture lacks in order to help.
 
Old 06-10-2022, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Southern MN
12,040 posts, read 8,418,487 times
Reputation: 44797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
first of all, my quick search shows conflating suicide by gun with "gun violence"

wasnt able to find data that separates it.
Ferd, once again, go to the Departments of Health for the States to see the division. It's nearly 50/50.
 
Old 06-10-2022, 11:35 AM
 
Location: The Sunshine State of Mind
2,409 posts, read 1,528,388 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyaleWithCheese View Post
Why are republicans so obsessed with Chicago?
Probably the same reason democrats are so obsessed with iNSurReTiOn.
 
Old 06-10-2022, 11:41 AM
 
30,159 posts, read 11,789,790 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monello View Post
Probably the same reason democrats are so obsessed with iNSurReTiOn.
Partisan politics. Both sides look for the others weaknesses.


The dems are obsessed with January 6th. Trump voters are in denial about it.
 
Old 06-10-2022, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Plymouth Meeting, PA.
5,734 posts, read 3,252,087 times
Reputation: 3147
Because it has the strictest of gun laws and the highest murder rates. Democrat controlled.



Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyaleWithCheese View Post
Exactly, Chicago isnt even in that list but if a republican wants to complain about crime it is always Chicago.
 
Old 06-10-2022, 12:16 PM
 
20,459 posts, read 12,379,585 times
Reputation: 10251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklazona Bound View Post
Wyoming? Alaska? Even Idaho has about the same gun deaths per capita as Chicago. Of course wealthier areas have much less crime. But you just move the target when the facts don't back up your point.

Blue cities and the way they govern have an end result of more crime and deaths by firearms. No doubt. But the inconvenient truth is red stats without big inner cites also have lots of gun deaths.
First, I really havent expressed my real point. But to make it, my point is that first and foremost economic access /hope/hopelessness are the real drivers of crime.

No matter where you look, whether you are looking at "red states" or "blue cities" you find two things in common. First, little economic access that leads to hopelessness and second, policies advocated by the political left that exacerbates the issue.

By the way, when I agree on the surface with some notion (not necessarily with that presented in the OP, it doesnt mean I see that as some indication that blacks are violent. It really points to greater hopelessness and less economic access. on the last point, thats a function of systemic racism. litterallly draw a line in any city in America, the jobs are on one side of that line and the majority of underserved blacks are on the other.

As for hopelessness, democrat policy and rhetoric drive that message daily into the heads of every person of color in the country. "You have no hope. You have no chance. The system is rigged against and all white people hate you. " Its a false premise and it is damaging to the country.

If we drill down on the numbers from places like Alaska and Wyoming will follow the pattern even if on the surface it doesnt look like it and even if it isnt black people involved.
 
Old 06-10-2022, 12:36 PM
 
29,480 posts, read 14,643,964 times
Reputation: 14442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
what percentage of Mississippi's issue is in Jackson? Which is a dem controlled city.

Louisiana has 3 cities that have ungodly crime. NOLA, Baton Rouge and Shreveport. they account for a huge portion of Louisiana's population and their crime drives up the whole state.

As for Chicago, drive those numbers down to zip codes. Im betting you have vast swaths of middle class areas called "Chicago" with virtually no crime and a handful that have crime rates as high or higher than pretty much any murderous "red state"
Exactly, that is why it can't be broken down by state.
 
Old 06-10-2022, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Southeast US
8,609 posts, read 2,308,232 times
Reputation: 2114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklazona Bound View Post
Partisan politics. Both sides look for the others weaknesses.


The dems are obsessed with January 6th. Trump voters are in denial about it.
Hardcore progressives and elected DC Dems are obsessed. Trump sycophants are in denial.
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