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Old 06-15-2022, 03:45 PM
 
74 posts, read 67,319 times
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Density requires rules and unfortunately the government has proven they aren't apt to enforcing rules and rather going with "live and let live". Which is great in theory but just means the homeless take over public spaces and petty to violent crime increases. If you want people to live in close proximity then you need strict rules and enforcement, because otherwise people will do as they are now, which is move away to the suburbs once they can't tolerate the rule breaking anymore.
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Old 06-15-2022, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,869 posts, read 26,508,031 times
Reputation: 25771
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodrowStilzin View Post
Literally nobody said that. Just want the same affordability as you boomers had.
There are a lot of places where property is still affordable.
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Old 06-15-2022, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Retired in VT; previously MD & NJ
14,267 posts, read 6,956,122 times
Reputation: 17878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freesponge View Post
The mixed use I’m referring to is where we resolve the cramming by increasing parks, wider sidewalks, whole blocks with pedestrian-only traffic, you must walk, build up instead of out , remove the car, if this is the condition you’ll see real estate price come down .

Another creative model I just thought up is we have a high rise with a Target and Starbucks on the bottom floor , so now you need no car and you can remotely work and get your necessities walking downstairs where you meet all your friends at Target . On floor 3 you have the school . We could try this . A town in a building
You are describing a city. We already have many of those.
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Old 06-15-2022, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,869 posts, read 26,508,031 times
Reputation: 25771
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freesponge View Post
Then why does it work in the Netherlands? Where elementary schools are filled with bicycle racks with all the kids riding side by side to school, and crossing villages on bike to meet kids in neighboring towns to skateboard or play soccer or go to a choir practice after school and/or weekends? I mean this is a gold standard for not just happy kids but 2 working parents who can’t afford to pay for nanny care, childcare , camps, daycares , and in the Netherlands this is liberating and kids are not stuck in a house.

You might say is this safe? Very low crime and it’s that kids are all outside in large numbers and there’s enough people traffic along the same pathways that there’s lots of eyes on the kids. The other thing making Netherlands safer is bikes replacing cars leading to much fewer crossings of pedestrians into high speed traffic and paths mostly overpass highways or tunnel beneath them

A whole bunch of things add to European affordability
1) You don’t need a car or car insurance
2) Childcare costs replaced with independence of movement for kids at a younger age
3) Housing units and sizes are smaller BECAUSE the general outdoors is a bigger component of living
4) Very low cost for heat and A/C (this is partly climate more temperate in Europe with less humidity). A/C is the largest component of Electricity bill
5) Wi-Fi hotspots much more abundant and even private Wi-Fi is cheaper per month as are phone data plans …. Only the apple iPhone is around the same price everywhere but that’s a one-time cost and you can go with older used smart phones just fine
6) Medical care is taxed automatically and you pay very little if any for medical bills
7) Much cheaper out of pocket tuition for higher education.

If this isn’t enough, you also have much more generous paid parental leave for newborns
Nothing remotely affordable about Europe. Taxes, fees and regulations are insane. A lot of people walk, not because they want to, but because they can't afford cars. Housing units are smaller...for the same reason, they can't afford nicer places. Cars are smaller than in the US-for the same reason.
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Old 06-15-2022, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Southeast US
8,609 posts, read 2,308,762 times
Reputation: 2114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freesponge View Post
Then why does it work in the Netherlands? Where elementary schools are filled with bicycle racks with all the kids riding side by side to school, and crossing villages on bike to meet kids in neighboring towns to skateboard or play soccer or go to a choir practice after school and/or weekends? I mean this is a gold standard for not just happy kids but 2 working parents who can’t afford to pay for nanny care, childcare , camps, daycares , and in the Netherlands this is liberating and kids are not stuck in a house.

You might say is this safe? Very low crime and it’s that kids are all outside in large numbers and there’s enough people traffic along the same pathways that there’s lots of eyes on the kids. The other thing making Netherlands safer is bikes replacing cars leading to much fewer crossings of pedestrians into high speed traffic and paths mostly overpass highways or tunnel beneath them

A whole bunch of things add to European affordability
1) You don’t need a car or car insurance
2) Childcare costs replaced with independence of movement for kids at a younger age
3) Housing units and sizes are smaller BECAUSE the general outdoors is a bigger component of living
4) Very low cost for heat and A/C (this is partly climate more temperate in Europe with less humidity). A/C is the largest component of Electricity bill
5) Wi-Fi hotspots much more abundant and even private Wi-Fi is cheaper per month as are phone data plans …. Only the apple iPhone is around the same price everywhere but that’s a one-time cost and you can go with older used smart phones just fine
6) Medical care is taxed automatically and you pay very little if any for medical bills
7) Much cheaper out of pocket tuition for higher education.

If this isn’t enough, you also have much more generous paid parental leave for newborns
here I thought this was only about development/zoning/sprawl/compact multi-use neighborhoods.

The Democratic Socialists are thataway ---->>
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Old 06-15-2022, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Mr. Roger's Neighborhood
4,088 posts, read 2,562,030 times
Reputation: 12495
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
We already have those. It's called Michigan, and Ohio.
And a fair bit of Pennsylvania, too. What the O.P. is describing is pretty much my neighborhood and more than a few others just like it.
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Old 06-15-2022, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Southeast US
8,609 posts, read 2,308,762 times
Reputation: 2114
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodrowStilzin View Post
Let me clarify, places close to our jobs and where it’s easier to get around.
I don’t want 99% of my work week to be stuck in traffic.

These are problems manufactured as a byproduct of our infrastructure. I see shows in the 70s/80s of people living in NYC with 1 job that cou still afford rent.

I don’t want luxury. Just the same affordability. And it in a way where we gotta drive in miserable traffic or live in an area that just has meth and despair.
you spend 99% of your workweek to be stuck in traffic? Or you think someone else does? Or that, within a decade, that's where we'll all be?
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Old 06-15-2022, 04:05 PM
 
Location: San Diego
50,289 posts, read 47,043,365 times
Reputation: 34070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Formerly Known As Twenty View Post
And a fair bit of Pennsylvania, too. What the O.P. is describing is pretty much my neighborhood and more than a few others just like it.
and none of you are crying cause you can't have a third level apt on the beach.
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Old 06-15-2022, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Mr. Roger's Neighborhood
4,088 posts, read 2,562,030 times
Reputation: 12495
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
and none of you are crying cause you can't have a third level apt on the beach.
Exactly. However, I *do* have a lovely view of the largest of our three rivers from my kitchen window.

Perhaps the O.P. should find a nice inner ring suburb of a mid-size city or a small town in which to live somewhere in the Midwest or Appalachia. What he's describing still exists in many such places.
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Old 06-15-2022, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
8,553 posts, read 10,978,234 times
Reputation: 10808
I think the op is living a unobtainable pipe dream.
He/she wants areas where all races, and ethnic groups get along.
That is just not possible.
Rich, even middle class are not going to live among the poor.
Hispanics are not going to live among blacks, and the list goes on.

One other important fact is, why should anyone be building new developments with a direct tie in to the electrical grid, or the water system?
We are already rationing both electric and water because of obsolete systems, and the op wants more of the same.

I believe any new development, be it multi use, single family, of even commercial development should only be grated once developers have found new sources for both electric, and water supply, with out tying into the existing sources.
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