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Old 08-12-2022, 06:39 AM
 
6,389 posts, read 2,719,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
When did hormone blockers replace antidepressants as treatment for those who are so depressed that they are suicidal?

Hormone blockers are not treatment for suicidal thoughts.

Otherwise everyone who is depressed would be taking gender affirmation treatment.
If these doctors and associations have their way...that may not be that far off.
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Old 08-12-2022, 06:46 AM
 
21,382 posts, read 7,960,825 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankNSense View Post
If these doctors and associations have their way...that may not be that far off.
If I threaten to kill myself because I want a million dollars, why doesn't the doctor just give me a million dollars?

That's the logic behind this "therapy."

Don't investigate the suicidal tendencies. Just give in to the demand. Because that *suddenly* cures the depression causing the suicidal tendencies.

Imbecilic. One group holding the medical professional hostage, but they don't mind because they are making millions off it.

One estimate for lifetime costs per patient for only the medication associated with transitioning is almost $1.5 million.

Think that doesn't get the industry excited???
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Old 08-12-2022, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
5,512 posts, read 9,502,978 times
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I'm not a medical professional, but I get why they would recommend the change in age. Although puberty has started in most children by this age, the physical changes brought on by puberty aren't complete, and--I assume--would be easier to reverse.

If a female, for example, is sure that they are really a male, why should they go all the way down the path to having an adult woman's body, before having to undo those changes?

Of course, the checks and balances needed to be "sure," should be rigorous, so that all of these false positives that the conservatives here like to bring up are minimized.
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Old 08-12-2022, 08:38 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,184 posts, read 18,329,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
I'm not a medical professional, but I get why they would recommend the change in age. Although puberty has started in most children by this age, the physical changes brought on by puberty aren't complete, and--I assume--would be easier to reverse.

If a female, for example, is sure that they are really a male, why should they go all the way down the path to having an adult woman's body, before having to undo those changes?

Of course, the checks and balances needed to be "sure," should be rigorous, so that all of these false positives that the conservatives here like to bring up are minimized.
At 14 were you "sure" of anything ?
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Old 08-12-2022, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
27,213 posts, read 13,502,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS Jaun View Post
"A leading transgender health association has lowered its recommended minimum age for starting gender transition treatment, including sex hormones and surgeries."

What next? 10 year olds, then 6

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/tr...8afdd88ed5cf1a
I would be careful of getting involved in such decisions.

In the UK, the main trans-gender centre was the Gender Unit at the Tavistock Centre.

However there have been court case and critical reports leading to the closure of the Tavistock unit in London, whilst over one thousand families are now suing over alleged 'failings in care' and in relation to those "started on a treatment pathway that was not right for them".

This is becoming a Lawyers dream, and in most countries there are increasing regulations being introduced in relation to those under 18, whilst staff turnover has been rapid, as no one wants to get involved in such a controversial legal mine field.
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Old 08-12-2022, 08:51 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,184 posts, read 18,329,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
I would be careful of getting involved in such decisions.

In the UK, the main trans-gender centre was the Gender Unit at the Tavistock Centre.

However there have been court case and critical reports leading to the closure of the Tavistock unit in London, whilst over one thousand families are now suing over alleged 'failings in care' and in relation to those "started on a treatment pathway that was not right for them".

This is becoming a Lawyers dream.
The WH has signed 2 EO's protecting these actions. How do you think that would fare in court seeing the WH, CDC and HHS all approve of this ?
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Old 08-12-2022, 08:54 AM
 
21,487 posts, read 10,593,081 times
Reputation: 14133
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
If I threaten to kill myself because I want a million dollars, why doesn't the doctor just give me a million dollars?

That's the logic behind this "therapy."

Don't investigate the suicidal tendencies. Just give in to the demand. Because that *suddenly* cures the depression causing the suicidal tendencies.

Imbecilic. One group holding the medical professional hostage, but they don't mind because they are making millions off it.

One estimate for lifetime costs per patient for only the medication associated with transitioning is almost $1.5 million.

Think that doesn't get the industry excited???
I like your analogy. These medical professionals need to be sued into oblivion. That will make them stop when they can no longer afford the malpractice insurance and the hospitals finally say enough is enough.
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Old 08-12-2022, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
27,213 posts, read 13,502,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
The WH has signed 2 EO's protecting these actions. How do you think that would fare in court seeing the WH, CDC and HHS all approve of this ?
In terms of the US, it seems to sway between who is in power and I am sure if the Republicans regain power and the next President id Republican, then the current executive orders and powers will be swept away.

As for the Tavistock, I used it as an example of the dilemma in other countries beyond the US.

Quote:
Originally Posted by National Catholic Register

Britain’s National Health System announced the closure of the Tavistock Gender Identity Development Service last week. The shakeup could have seismic consequences for similar practices in the U.S., where activists have promoted “gender-affirming” care for children who suffer from gender dysphoria — a condition in which the patient feels psychological distress from an incongruence between their bodily sex and their inner feelings of being male or female. Gender-affirming protocols encourage patients to align their pronouns, names and outward physical traits with their inner feelings. Puberty blockers are said to “pause” normal physical changes as a first step toward the ultimate goal of presenting as the opposite sex.

The shuttering of the London-based clinic marks a “victory” for “those who say self-proclaimed gender identity should not trump biological sex,” stated The Economist after the decision was announced. “The tide in Britain appears to be turning against groups who espouse the belief that gender identity trumps all else, and towards maintaining support for sex-based rights and evidence-based medicine.”

The closely-watched move followed the release of a damning report by Dr. Hilary Cass, a former president of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, who was commissioned to investigate claims and questions raised by the clinic’s gender-affirming practices, including the provision of puberty blockers for children as young as 10. Whistleblowers alleged that the clinic was under pressure from transgender activists to jump-start the transition process, while failing to give sufficient weight to patients’ mental-health history.

In her report, Dr. Cass noted that the impact of puberty blockers on children had not been studied with sufficient scientific rigor. Did the medication “pause” puberty or serve as “an initial part of a transition pathway?” she asked. Was brain development “temporarily or permanently disrupted by puberty-blockers?” U.S. physicians worried about these practices have raised similar questions, even as professional medical groups have signed off on the practice.

Dr. Paul Hruz, a U.S. academic pediatrician endocrinologist and a physician-scientist, told the Register that the European medical community had more experience with evolving treatment models for gender dysphoria, and so the forced closure of the Tavistock clinic should be a wake-up call for American physicians who work in this field.

“Treating physicians in the U.S. need to pay attention to what is going on in Europe,” said Dr. Hruz, “But rather than doing so, the activists are doubling down and making claims that the affirmative approach is being established as the most effective approach.”

Sue Evans, a nurse and whistleblower who previously worked at the Tavistock clinic and tried to raise the alarm about its practices, said that the news offered a cautionary tale of a once prestigious clinic derailed by “activist-driven medicine.”

Elsewhere in the U.S., the reaction to the news from Britain has been mixed, even muted.

“The overhaul of services for transgender young people in England is part of a notable shift in medical practice across some European countries with nationalized health care systems,” the New York Times reported last week in a story that acknowledged concerns regarding “the dearth of data on long-term safety and outcomes of medical transitions.”

But U.S. physicians who provide gender reassignment surgery told the Times they were worried the Tavistock clinic closure would “fuel the growing political movement in some states to ban such care entirely.”
Dr. Cass confirmed that doctors and clinicians often failed to investigate and address underlying mental health issues, such as depression, autism and histories of abuse and trauma. That failure left the patients at “considerable risk” for future problems, she warned. The report noted “critically important unanswered questions” regarding the provision of puberty blockers to very young children.

It flagged the lack of patient follow-up, which would have given clinicians the chance to evaluate the actual benefits of the drugs over time.

Dr. Hruz, the U.S. endocrinologist, noted that Dr. Cass’ findings “were consistent with the conclusions of Finland's Council for Healthcare Choices (COHERE) and the Swedish National Board of Health and Welfare. Unlike the United States, these countries have elected to move beyond politics and ideology to best serve the surging population of youth who experience sex-discordant gender identity.”

He welcomed the shift in focus to the evaluation and treatment of “associated psychological morbidity, whether this is primary or secondary to the condition of gender dysphoria.”

Contd.....

An Earthquake in Trans Medicine: Are We Paying Attention? - National Catholic Register

Last edited by Brave New World; 08-12-2022 at 09:04 AM..
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Old 08-12-2022, 09:00 AM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,184 posts, read 18,329,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
In terms of the US, it seems to sway between who is in power and I am sure if the Republicans regain power and the next President id Republican, then the current executive orders and powers will be swept away
True that. It's that whoever gets the Oval Office now gets to rule by EO until Congress or the Supreme Court stops them. Then the next President takes over, voids the previous President's EO's and starts his own list of ruling by EO.

A quasi dictatorship.
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Old 08-12-2022, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
27,213 posts, read 13,502,497 times
Reputation: 19570
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
True that. It's that whoever gets the Oval Office now gets to rule by EO until Congress or the Supreme Court stops them. Then the next President takes over, voids the previous President's EO's and starts his own list of ruling by EO.

A quasi dictatorship.


Agreed, however I do suggest that you read how decisions in the UK and Europe are now seeing a move from the current system, and how the US medical profession and politicians are watching closely.
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