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Old 08-01-2022, 04:05 PM
 
2,038 posts, read 504,618 times
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Once again, the ringleaders of the alleged fairtax are trying to con the American people. The latest tactic is The FAIRtax 2022 Candidate Pledge

The authors of the “FairTax” suggest under their proposal the IRS will be closed down and federal income taxes will be no more. But what actually would happen is, in place of the IRS, the FairTax creates two new tax collecting agencies, the “Excise Tax Bureau” and a “Sales Tax Bureau”, not to mention H.R. 25 (its current House legislation) keeps the “Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms” open for business.

Additionally, under the FairTax, tax returns are still required to be filed by taxpayers, and twelve times a year, and Congress has power to require any type of record keeping it wants, regardless of how burdensome doing so may be to the taxpayer.

Also keep in mind the FairTax, which imposes a 23 percent tax on “all consumption of goods and services in the United States” will tax the necessities of life. To make taxing the necessities of life with an outrageous 23 percent tax tolerable, the plan creates a new federal entitlement called the “Family Consumption Allowance”. This is a monthly check sent out to every “qualified family”, which would allow them to purchase a rationed supply of tax-free articles each month.

But the Family Consumption Allowance subtility makes a large segment of society absolutely dependent on a new federal entitlement, and thus opens the door for socialists and progressives in Congress to rant and rave about the “poor” every election cycle and promise an increase in the monthly government check every time an election comes around.

While the alleged FairTax ringleaders boast it would close down the IRS and end federal income taxes, the fact is, it does not withdraw Congress’ power to lay and collect excise taxes, such as the Corporate Excise Tax of 1909, which was calculated from profits and upheld by the S.C. in Flint vs Stone Tracy ___ long before the adoption of the Sixteenth Amendment! Likewise, the FairTax does not prevent Congress from laying and collecting various other types of excise taxes on individuals, which can also be calculated from profits, gains, salaries, business sales and other “income”.

The bottom line is, the FairTax is a clever rope-a-dope plan to actually increase the federal government’s iron fisted power of taxation, and the shiny object used to delude the people is the illusion that it ends the miseries connected to the IRS, and likewise ends federal taxes calculated from profits, gains, salaries, and other types of “income” when in fact it does not!

Take for example how this tax affects an ordinary married couple. Let us look at Mary and Joe, who have two children and find it necessary to earn extra money to pay their bills. Mary baby sits for neighbors in the community and cleans homes on weekends to raise extra money while Joe, who works for a plumbing company as a full-time job, also provides the same plumbing service on his own time to people living in his community to raise extra cash.

Under the alleged FairTax, Mary and Joe’s inalienable right to sell the property they have in their labor becomes a taxable event. In fact, they must first register with government to sell the property they have in their labor, and then collect a 23 percent federal tax for Congress when selling their labor, file federal sales tax returns under the penalty of perjury 12 times a year, and they will be compelled to keep any records Congress may dream up. In addition, let us not forget to mention the threat of audits will constantly haunt them if they dare to sell the property they have in their labor, and federal tax audits are still a threat to political opponents, which is exactly how American citizens now live under existing federal taxation.

So, as it turns out, the FairTax is not what it is cranked up to be and actually keeps Congress’ power to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains, and other types of incomes alive, along with federal audits, and, federal taxation can still be used as a political weapon against political opponents ... all this in addition to creating a new 23 percent tax on “all consumption of goods and services in the United States” and a brand new federal entitlement making people dependent upon our federal government.

The remarkable thing is, adding the following words to our Constitution would actually accomplish what the ringleaders suggest they are trying to accomplish. The question is, why do the not add the following words to H.R. 25?

The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed, and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.

NOTE: these words would return us to our Founding Father's original tax plan as they intended it to operate! They would also end the experiment with allowing Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from lawfully earned "incomes" which now oppresses Americas' economic engine and robs the bread which working people have earned when selling the property each has in their own labor!
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Old 08-01-2022, 04:08 PM
 
1,315 posts, read 352,101 times
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The right-wing party won't uphold it's pledge to the constitution but they are 100% committed to any pledge that gives tax breaks to the wealthy.
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Old 08-01-2022, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Annandale, VA
4,872 posts, read 1,350,783 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vegasrollingstone View Post
The right-wing party won't uphold it's pledge to the constitution but they are 100% committed to any pledge that gives tax breaks to the wealthy.
Anyone that actually pays more in tax than they receive in services it considered "wealthy".
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Old 08-01-2022, 04:36 PM
 
Location: America's Kakistocracy
20,899 posts, read 15,036,705 times
Reputation: 18140
Fairtax is not perfect. But what we have now is a hell of a lot worse. A tax for everything under the sun. A penalty for productivity.

What needs to happen is far simpler as far as individual citizens paying taxes: no basis on income/earnings at all and a simple, basic consumption tax. That's it. End of story. No need for an IRS. No need for much of anything more than is needed to charge a sales tax when you buy things at the store.

Justification is that a rich person uses public assets/resources no more than a poor person--in fact just the opposite. So our system the way it is right now is a penalty for productivity. The more you make, the more you are screwed. There is no logical basis for that at all. Tax is supposed to be tax, not a redistribution scheme--theft is not the definition of tax.
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Old 08-01-2022, 04:46 PM
 
2,038 posts, read 504,618 times
Reputation: 686
Default The fair share balanced budget amendment

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post

What needs to happen is far simpler as far as individual citizens paying taxes: no basis on income/earnings at all and a simple, basic consumption tax. That's it. End of story. No need for an IRS. No need for much of anything more than is needed to charge a sales tax when you buy things at the store.


The solution is found in the "fair share balanced budget amendment".


“SECTION 1. The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.


NOTE: these words would return us to our founding father’s original tax plan as they intended it to operate! They would also end the experiment with allowing Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from lawfully earned "incomes" which now oppresses America‘s economic engine and robs the bread which working people have earned when selling the property each has in their own labor!

"SECTION 2. Congress ought not raise money by borrowing, but when the money arising from imposts duties and excise taxes are insufficient to meet the public exigencies, and Congress has raised money by borrowing during the course of a fiscal year, Congress shall then lay a direct tax at the beginning of the next fiscal year for an amount sufficient to extinguish the preceding fiscal year's deficit, and apply the revenue so raised to extinguishing said deficit."


NOTE: Congress is to raise its primary revenue from imposts and duties, [taxes at our water’s edge], and may also lay miscellaneous internal excise taxes on specifically chosen articles of consumption. But if Congress borrows and spends more than is brought in from imposts, duties and miscellaneous excise taxes during the course of a fiscal year, then, and only then, is the apportioned tax to be laid.


"SECTION 3. When Congress is required to lay a direct tax in accordance with Section 1 of this Article, the Secretary of the United States Treasury shall, in a timely manner, calculate each State's apportioned share of the total sum being raised by dividing its total population size by the total population of the united states and multiplying that figure by the total being raised by Congress, and then provide the various State Congressional Delegations with a Bill notifying their State’s Executive and Legislature of its share of the total tax being collected and a final date by which said tax shall be paid into the United States Treasury."


In reference to the above Section see: FIRST DIRECT TAX LAID BY CONGRESS, 1798



NOTE: our founder’s fair share formula to extinguish an annual deficit would be:

States’ population

---------------------------- X SUM TO BE RAISED = STATE’S FAIR SHARE

Total U.S. Population


The above formula, as intended by our founding fathers, is to ensure that each state’s share towards extinguishing an annual deficit is proportionately equal to its representation in Congress, i.e., representation with a proportional financial obligation! And if the tax is laid directly upon the people by Congress, then everybody across the United States pays the exact same amount!



Note also that each State’s number or Representatives, under our Constitution is determined by the rule of apportionment:


State`s Pop.
------------------- X House size (435) = State`s No. of Representatives
U.S. Pop.



"SECTION 4. Each State shall be free to assume and pay its quota of the direct tax into the United States Treasury by a final date set by Congress, but if any State shall refuse or neglect to pay its quota, then Congress shall send forth its officers to assess and levy such State's proportion against the real property within the State with interest thereon at the rate of ((?)) per cent per annum, and against the individual owners of the taxable property. Provision shall be made for a 15% discount for those States paying their share by ((?))of the fiscal year in which the tax is laid, and a 10% discount for States paying by the final date set by Congress, such discount being to defray the States' cost of collection."


NOTE: This section respects the Tenth Amendment and allows each state to raise its share in its own chosen way in a time period set by Congress, but also allows the federal government to enter a state and collect the tax if a state is delinquent in meeting its obligation.


"SECTION 5. This Amendment to the Constitution, when ratified by the required number of States, shall take effect no later than (?) years after the required number of States have ratified it.

So, the real solution is returning to our Constitution’s original tax plan which is promoted in “Prosperity Restored by the State Rate Tax Plan” [published in 1985, no longer in print] But see Jefferson Rising » The Founding Fathers Original Tax Plan

.

Last edited by johnwk1; 08-01-2022 at 05:00 PM..
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Old 08-01-2022, 09:29 PM
 
2,038 posts, read 504,618 times
Reputation: 686
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegasrollingstone View Post
The right-wing party won't uphold it's pledge to the constitution but they are 100% committed to any pledge that gives tax breaks to the wealthy.
I have no idea what your post has to do with the FairTax 2022 candidate pledge.
.
.
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Old 08-01-2022, 11:17 PM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
30,869 posts, read 19,599,216 times
Reputation: 9583
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwk1 View Post
The solution is found in the "fair share balanced budget amendment".


“SECTION 1. The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.


NOTE: these words would return us to our founding father’s original tax plan as they intended it to operate! They would also end the experiment with allowing Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from lawfully earned "incomes" which now oppresses America‘s economic engine and robs the bread which working people have earned when selling the property each has in their own labor!

"SECTION 2. Congress ought not raise money by borrowing, but when the money arising from imposts duties and excise taxes are insufficient to meet the public exigencies, and Congress has raised money by borrowing during the course of a fiscal year, Congress shall then lay a direct tax at the beginning of the next fiscal year for an amount sufficient to extinguish the preceding fiscal year's deficit, and apply the revenue so raised to extinguishing said deficit."


NOTE: Congress is to raise its primary revenue from imposts and duties, [taxes at our water’s edge], and may also lay miscellaneous internal excise taxes on specifically chosen articles of consumption. But if Congress borrows and spends more than is brought in from imposts, duties and miscellaneous excise taxes during the course of a fiscal year, then, and only then, is the apportioned tax to be laid.


"SECTION 3. When Congress is required to lay a direct tax in accordance with Section 1 of this Article, the Secretary of the United States Treasury shall, in a timely manner, calculate each State's apportioned share of the total sum being raised by dividing its total population size by the total population of the united states and multiplying that figure by the total being raised by Congress, and then provide the various State Congressional Delegations with a Bill notifying their State’s Executive and Legislature of its share of the total tax being collected and a final date by which said tax shall be paid into the United States Treasury."


In reference to the above Section see: FIRST DIRECT TAX LAID BY CONGRESS, 1798



NOTE: our founder’s fair share formula to extinguish an annual deficit would be:

States’ population

---------------------------- X SUM TO BE RAISED = STATE’S FAIR SHARE

Total U.S. Population


The above formula, as intended by our founding fathers, is to ensure that each state’s share towards extinguishing an annual deficit is proportionately equal to its representation in Congress, i.e., representation with a proportional financial obligation! And if the tax is laid directly upon the people by Congress, then everybody across the United States pays the exact same amount!



Note also that each State’s number or Representatives, under our Constitution is determined by the rule of apportionment:


State`s Pop.
------------------- X House size (435) = State`s No. of Representatives
U.S. Pop.



"SECTION 4. Each State shall be free to assume and pay its quota of the direct tax into the United States Treasury by a final date set by Congress, but if any State shall refuse or neglect to pay its quota, then Congress shall send forth its officers to assess and levy such State's proportion against the real property within the State with interest thereon at the rate of ((?)) per cent per annum, and against the individual owners of the taxable property. Provision shall be made for a 15% discount for those States paying their share by ((?))of the fiscal year in which the tax is laid, and a 10% discount for States paying by the final date set by Congress, such discount being to defray the States' cost of collection."


NOTE: This section respects the Tenth Amendment and allows each state to raise its share in its own chosen way in a time period set by Congress, but also allows the federal government to enter a state and collect the tax if a state is delinquent in meeting its obligation.


"SECTION 5. This Amendment to the Constitution, when ratified by the required number of States, shall take effect no later than (?) years after the required number of States have ratified it.

So, the real solution is returning to our Constitution’s original tax plan which is promoted in “Prosperity Restored by the State Rate Tax Plan” [published in 1985, no longer in print] But see Jefferson Rising » The Founding Fathers Original Tax Plan

.
The above is quite complex. But from you being a far-right conservative, isn't what you really want is to abolish all taxes and go with a voluntary privately financed private government system, especially at the state and city level? So, if you want fire and police protection you would pay for it every month to a private company or companies. If you don't want any of it, then opt out of it. I believe that people who have guns at home and feel they are not careless with fire would.

At the federal level, voluntary contributions would decide how big the federal government would be. But much of it could be reduced by only going by what the Constitution dictates. For starters, the constitution does not direct that the Dept. of Education must exist.

I have nothing against the FairTax, except it's too much to expect people to fill out a form every month, along with giving deductions or rebates to millionaires.

Last edited by StillwaterTownie; 08-01-2022 at 11:51 PM..
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Old 08-02-2022, 07:10 AM
 
41,324 posts, read 22,626,409 times
Reputation: 20390
Quote:
Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie View Post

I have nothing against the FairTax, except it's too much to expect people to fill out a form every month, along with giving deductions or rebates to millionaires.
Not arguing with you - but right now the millionaires fill out a bunch of forms to get their deductions and rebates.

It seems like the only fair way to tax people is with a flat rate tax with no behavioral exceptions.

-------------------------------

Regarding the OP and the plan in general - they are dropping this big plan from the sky and saying this is what we want to do. I think educating the populace on how it benefits them in small chunks would be wise.

Last edited by DRob4JC; 08-02-2022 at 07:20 AM..
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Old 08-02-2022, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Golden, CO
3,810 posts, read 7,025,545 times
Reputation: 4602
I wasn’t aware of this pledge, but about 15 years ago, I read the FairTax book that outlined the plan.

The one thing I really like about it is that EVERYONE pays SOMETHING, at least at the federal level, and that the tax code would be massively simplified and possibly less open to manipulation by politicians.

I like that aspect of it, at least. Not sure what details have changed now. But at the end of the day, it’s an idea. Doesn’t mean it’s going to become law.
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Old 08-02-2022, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Long Island
30,269 posts, read 17,373,373 times
Reputation: 8707
Actually the fairtax is a great idea, and makes taxes a lot easier...and will bring more revenue into the government, therefore eliminating the deficit

if you look at the source data, you will see it is the fairest, and best possible solution to all the redtape we have now...funny thing is the liberals want to ADD a VAT ontop of the income tax, where as the fairtax, is a consumption tax IN PLACE of the income/corporate/estate/sin taxes



say yes to the fairtax


www.fairtax.org
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