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Old 08-15-2022, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,069 posts, read 19,043,723 times
Reputation: 14809

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Commenter View Post
That is literally all the president has to do. If that.

The Dems really don’t like the process as regards to Trump.
"If that?"

If nobody else could tell the document had been declassified, it would still be classified for legal purposes. The classification is not the only problem with the stolen documents, though.

 
Old 08-15-2022, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Long Island
57,074 posts, read 26,036,019 times
Reputation: 15531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Commenter View Post
Originally Posted by Quick Commenter View Post
From Fox:

“ Trump 'will do whatever' he can to 'help the country' after FBI raid: 'Temperature has to be brought down'
Trump said his representatives reached out to DOJ to offer to help amid outrage over the FBI search of Mar-a-Lago”

Who’d have guessed this would play right into his re-election appeal.
Reading is fundamental.
Huh, you never answered the question as to what Trump has done to lower the temperature.
Quote:
Former President Donald Trump on Sunday publicly requested that documents seized from his Florida resort and home during a federal search this past week be returned, claiming that it includes confidential attorney and client communications.

I guess "give me back my documents" helps lower the temperature.

“Oh great! It has just been learned that the FBI, in its now famous raid of Mar-a-Lago, took boxes of privileged ‘attorney-client’ material, and also ‘executive’ privileged material, which they knowingly should not have taken,” he posted on his social media site, Truth Social.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump...b0526eaeeb9e70
 
Old 08-15-2022, 09:43 AM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
28,355 posts, read 16,320,229 times
Reputation: 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Commenter View Post
Or if you are the ultimate de- classification authority for the executive branch.
What is the point of the classification of information?
 
Old 08-15-2022, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
20,794 posts, read 9,440,104 times
Reputation: 15523
It's mind-boggling there are still people here claiming that Trump declassified these documents.

No he didn't. We know that he didn't because the attachments to the warrant, which are an inventory of what was retrieved, said that they were still classified documents!

It's really that simple.

https://thehill.com/policy/national-...against-trump/

Here is a list of the contents of the items retrieved, on pages 6 and 7:
Quote:
1 - Executive Grant of Clemency re: Rog~r Jason Stone, Jr.
lA - Info re: President of France
2 - Leatherbound box of doqJ_ments
2A - Various classified/TS/SCI documents
3 - Potential Presidential Record
5 - Binder of photos
6 - Binder of photos
7 - Handwritten note
8 - Box labeled A-1
9 - Box labeled A-12
10 - Box Labeled A-15
lOA - Miscellaneous Secret Documents
11 - Box Labeled A-16
11A - Miscellanous Top Secret Documents
12 - Box labeled A-17
13 - Box labeled A-18
13A - Miscellaneous Top Secret Documents
14 - Box labeled A-27
14-A - Miscellaneous Confidential Documents
15 - Box Labeled A-28
15A-Miscellaneous Secret Documents
16 -Box labeled A-30
17 -Box labeled A-32
18 -Box labeled A-35
19 -Box labeled A-23
19A - Confidential Document
20 -Box Labeled A-22
21 -Box labeled A-24
22 -Box Labeled A-34
23 -Box Labeled A-39
23A - Miscellaneous Secret Documents
24 -Box labeled A-40
25 -Box Labeled A-41
25A -Miscellaneous Confidential Documents
26 -Box Labeled A-42
26A - Miscellaneous Top Secret Documents
27 -Box Labeled A-71
28 -Box Labeled A-73
28A -Miscellaneous Top Secret Documents
Notice all the items that say "Secret Documents," "Top Secret Documents," "Confidential Documents," and one "classified/TS/SCI documents."

If these had been declassified before Trump left office, they would not have been labeled "Secret Documents," "Top Secret Documents," "Confidential Documents," and "classified/TS/SCI documents!" The fact they were thus labeled shows that they were not declassified.
 
Old 08-15-2022, 09:44 AM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
28,355 posts, read 16,320,229 times
Reputation: 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
"If that?"

If nobody else could tell the document had been declassified, it would still be classified for legal purposes. The classification is not the only problem with the stolen documents, though.
Precisely.
 
Old 08-15-2022, 09:45 AM
 
12,905 posts, read 15,616,422 times
Reputation: 9393
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
It's mind-boggling there are still people here claiming that Trump declassified these documents.

No he didn't. We know that he didn't because the attachments to the warrant, which are an inventory of what was retrieved, said that they were still classified documents!

It's really that simple.

https://thehill.com/policy/national-...against-trump/

Here is a list of the contents of the items retrieved, on pages 6 and 7:


Notice all the items that say "Secret Documents," "Top Secret Documents," "Confidential Documents," and one "classified/TS/SCI documents."

If these had been declassified before Trump left office, they would not have been labeled "Secret Documents," "Top Secret Documents," "Confidential Documents," and "classified/TS/SCI documents!" The fact they were thus labeled shows that they were not declassified.
You're just not getting it are you? He can declassify them in his imagination--in his mind. He never has to tell anyone. He can just think it into happening--he's just like a god. Or Jesus.
 
Old 08-15-2022, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,069 posts, read 19,043,723 times
Reputation: 14809
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
Considering some of the decisions made by Merrick Garland (think investigating parents at school boards, etc.), no, I don't give him the benefit of the doubt of "thinking this through."
He also got convictions for Timothy McVeigh and The Unabomber, Ted Kaczynski. One was executed, one is in the basement at Supermax. Garland don't play. He is exceptionally thorough, and would have considered the ramifications of getting the warrant for quite a while before acting.
 
Old 08-15-2022, 09:47 AM
 
13,389 posts, read 6,412,740 times
Reputation: 10022
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
All of those documents are catalogued and stored by NARA, stamped with any classification they may have, "stamped" being the operative word. That stamp has to be changed on any document that is reclassified, so that there is no confusion on what is and what is not classified.

A president is certainly allowed to declassify a document, but that process also includes updating the classification stamp. This should be a simple process for Trump to figure out what documents have what classification and demonstrate that to the public.
Right.......surely he has a running list in his brain or somewhere in his files
 
Old 08-15-2022, 09:54 AM
 
13,389 posts, read 6,412,740 times
Reputation: 10022
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Commenter View Post
From Fox:

“ Trump 'will do whatever' he can to 'help the country' after FBI raid: 'Temperature has to be brought down'
Trump said his representatives reached out to DOJ to offer to help amid outrage over the FBI search of Mar-a-Lago”

Who’d have guessed this would play right into his re-election appeal.
Good to see he learned something from Jan 6. Perhaps he will yet turn into a competent elder statesman.

Too little too late for me. Remains to be seen how other Americans feel.

He was losing my support after the election with all the stolen election nonsense. He lost my vote in any future election on Jan 6, the minute the capitol was breached.
 
Old 08-15-2022, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Retired in VT; previously MD & NJ
14,267 posts, read 6,918,369 times
Reputation: 17873
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
Do tell us what the legal basis for your completely ridiculous thought process here is Saying something is "garbage" or "foolish" but having nothing to back up your assertions is nothing more than hot air without any foundation. And you want people to take your arguments seriously?

Let's go through this again.

It is already established by the Supreme Court that the president's power over classification are inherent in his role as Commander in Chief.



https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/484/518/

Fundamentally, take a step back and think about things for a second. Who in the hell would the president have to "follow through" with? The very basis for classifying and declassifying documents stems from executive orders, which are issued by the president and, unlike legislation, can be revoked, waived, etc., at will by the president; they are presidential edicts derived from the president's constitutional authority. If the Supreme Court has ruled that the power over classification and declassification are inherent as part of the president's constitutional authorities as Commander In Chief, it is uncommonly silly to argue that the president limits his own constitutional authority by an executive order issued by himself. Not even Congress can limit a president's constitutional authority via legislation, and those folks from the article want us to believe that the president is required to "follow through" (with himself apparently) on a declassification process issued by himself? The only way to place limits or to bind the president when it comes to inherent constitutional authority is via constitutional amendment.

So, outside of any formal document binding the president on classification and declassification, yes we have to take the president's "word" for it. Still, you're not only taking his word for it. The fact that he maintained the documents at Mar A Lago after leaving office only supports his position and goes to intent to declassify. Otherwise, they would have been returned to the government prior to the president leaving office. Whether you believe Trump when he says that the documents were declassified is irrelevant as it falls on the government to prove otherwise (the government has to prove violations of law, not the other way around), which it can't. Hence, my position.

That a document says classified has zero basis on whether it actually is classified, so I don't know why this is a point that you and others bring up.
Nobody is disputing that the sitting president has the power to declassify (except for classified Nuclear-related and spy materials)

Nobody is saying the sitting President has to ask any other person or agency for permission. (except for classified Nuclear-related and spy materials)

But to say he does not have to mark the documents or have someone mark the documents for him to show they have been declassified is just plain nuts.

There has to be a way for other people to know that a document has been declassified. Other people cannot know what is in the president's head.

Can you explain how other people would know a doc has been declassified if the only person who knows is the president and he didn't tell anyone?

Aside from the law regarding stamping/labeling/marking classified documents, it's basic logic since humans cannot read the minds of other humans.

Last edited by ansible90; 08-15-2022 at 10:04 AM..
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