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View Poll Results: Country or Party?
Country 112 95.73%
Party 5 4.27%
Voters: 117. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Old 08-11-2022, 11:53 AM
 
6,950 posts, read 2,547,506 times
Reputation: 7940

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultor View Post
No... moving closer to a pure democracy will only hasten our demise.
Agree. A pure democracy would be a disaster. Too many people are incredibly myopic and can't see beyond their own desires. This is compounded by the fact that they have absolutely zero concept of strategic thinking. We'd be suffering from Venezuela levels of inflation within 6 months.
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Old 08-11-2022, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
21,342 posts, read 21,698,505 times
Reputation: 12866
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjshae View Post
I think that many of our current political problems can be addressed by moving away from a pluralistic voting system, while maintaining a democracy. This country has a lot of intrinsic strengths that will remain in place for a long time. I don't want to see us tear ourselves apart over what is really a minor difference in views.
The America you're thinking of ended around 2012. That's the America where "both sides" shared the same ideology but differed in how to achieve their common goals.

The goals for one "side" have changed. We don't want the same things anymore. Liberals still vote Democrat without realizing that they're voting for people with a fundamentally different ideology.

You can reject this as right-wing <insert derogatory label here> or whatever, but I'm not being hyperbolic and I'm not wrong. If you consider yourself a liberal and not a Leftist, swallow your pride for a bit and start listening to the top thinkers from the "other side" a little. You'll very quickly discover that I'm right, which is precisely why the efforts at censorship are so strong. If the information didn't challenge their power, they'd have no reason to censor it.
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Old 08-11-2022, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Upstate
8,147 posts, read 8,380,826 times
Reputation: 7233
Quote:
Originally Posted by concreteblonde View Post
My country. Both political parties are corrupt beyond redemption IMO.
Absolutely. And we are just stuck with the two of them. I can't see anyway out.
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Old 08-11-2022, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Upstate
8,147 posts, read 8,380,826 times
Reputation: 7233
Quote:
Originally Posted by jertheber View Post
Trump, Nixon, Johnson, Bush, Clinton, all have contributed to the notion that party politics is a very dirty business. And, by extension, anyone who follows the party line will be contributing to that political filth. Both parties are locked in a power struggle that is completely independent of the real mission of the Senate and House, and that would be to further the betterment of the majority.

It's obvious, American party politics is meant to be a distraction that prevents its actual task (governing) from being accomplished. And in that realization, those who can see the truth have been walking away from the party BS that keeps the real rulers in power, and ensures the elected nitwits will remain in servitude to that cabal of special interests.
I'm curious why you skipped Biden, Obama, Carter, Reagan since you went all of the way back to Johnson. Also, I assume you mean both Bush's?

Leaving them out of your list, are you saying that those presidents did NOT contribute to the ugly party politics? I can see maybe Carter and Reagan. But Obama and Biden should be on the list.
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Old 08-11-2022, 12:11 PM
 
1,086 posts, read 192,694 times
Reputation: 867
Quote:
Originally Posted by YourWakeUpCall View Post
It's not a partisan trap. Dems clearly value party over country.

Yes it is because I'm a Democrat who values country over party and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Party affiliation shouldn't be used as a divisive tool.
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Old 08-11-2022, 12:22 PM
 
190 posts, read 63,829 times
Reputation: 516
If your party is working toward what is best for the country, by voting for country you would by extension, vote for a party.

The party puts forth it's platform to define what it supports, and if your vision for the country matches, then you vote for that party.

That said, I am unaffiliated to either mainstream party, but I haven't voted for a democrat since 1992 because they're too far off from what I'd like to see the country become.
I usually vote Libertarian, but I've voted for other 3rd parties like the Constitutionalists, but very few of either of them are on local ballots, so by default, I have to vote Republican, or write in which i do often.

I don't vote in online polls very often as they're usually slanted to prove a specific point of view, especially ones like this that are just black or white when the true answer is usually a shade of grey.
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Old 08-11-2022, 12:22 PM
 
5,032 posts, read 4,186,888 times
Reputation: 16120
Quote:
Originally Posted by USNRET04 View Post
I'm curious why you skipped Biden, Obama, Carter, Reagan since you went all of the way back to Johnson. Also, I assume you mean both Bush's?

Leaving them out of your list, are you saying that those presidents did NOT contribute to the ugly party politics? I can see maybe Carter and Reagan. But Obama and Biden should be on the list.
I listed those who I thought had the most press coverage of their national and international dealings, you can feel free to add whatever president you want. My point is/was that dirty deeds, corruption, criminal intent, etc. is simply the stuff of everyday party politics, and no, I can't think of any president that has insisted upon an open and transparent government..
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Old 08-11-2022, 01:03 PM
 
8,448 posts, read 3,242,598 times
Reputation: 12229
Quote:
Originally Posted by YourWakeUpCall View Post
It's not a partisan trap. Dems clearly value party over country.
Republicans are far worse about party over country. Look at the rage from people over John Cornyn having the temerity to actually talk to and work with Democrats on the last gun law bill. The country works best when people who are polar opposites politically can come together and come up with solutions that no one likes 100%, but which both sides can live with. Reagan and Tip O'Neill were opposites politically, but were congenial with each other and were able to work together. That seems to have gone away these days.
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Old 08-11-2022, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Western PA
5,045 posts, read 1,307,033 times
Reputation: 3161
what? no option for rock and roll?



but anyways, some people - like myself for example - take an oath to the constitution and follow that whole thing..


I do not belong to any party (by law) but if consider ONLY the big 2, GOP and DNC, GOP requires no pledge of fealty. The DNC *does* and it requires that they be all or nothing. No DNC member is allowed to be their own person and vote their own way - its online, here is FL: https://browarddemocrats.org/wp-cont...9092512450.pdf


so thats just messed up
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Old 08-11-2022, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Old Hippie Heaven
22,828 posts, read 11,964,800 times
Reputation: 14509
Quote:
Originally Posted by USNRET04 View Post
Absolutely. And we are just stuck with the two of them. I can't see anyway out.
Actually, it's pretty simple. Change how the Electoral College works or abolish it completely. The state and federal arithmetic that results in an elected President forces 2 major parties. Yes, that's only at the federal level, but it cascades down.

And make no mistake, changing the EC or abolishing it entirely - well, we'd still have problems. Just different ones.
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