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Covid vaccinations for close in HC workers made a lot of sense at the time the vaccines came out. It simply made the most medical sense. I would not necessarily support those Covid vaccination today, for all sorts of reasons. But you have to think in real time vs looking at things in retrospect to make those statements.
Most HCW had COVID by the time vaccine mandates were imposed.
Also, the time the vaccine mandates were imposed was in the fall 2021, when we knew vaccination would not lead to herd immunity.
But let's pretend that all of this is not true - the vaccines were great, and the source of ending the pandemic.
While it may make sense to impose vaccines on HCW, it would be ethically wrong still imo. A lot of things make sense but are morally wrong. The Spartans inspected infants, and threw the sickly off a mountain. This made sense towards their goal - healthy fit warrior society. But I think we can all agree it was ethically wrong.
No, required COVID vaccination made no sense at all at any time during the pandemic. Nor did conditioning employment, dining, etc. on vaccination. It was reactionary based on limited research, most of which has still not been released to the public that was mandated to vaccinate.
Vaccination caused real, irreversible harm to some people, my parents included. People that otherwise may have survived COVID infection based on the odds, even at the peak of the first variant.
My physician - my immediate family's physician, thinks for herself. She researched COVID, disease, and natural immunity (she is an expert already on the latter). She prescribed effective therapeutics for our 2020 COVID infections and recommended against vaccination due to our natural immunity. I will be forever thankful that refused to regurgitate the same BS most other physicians did.
It was based on the best medical sense and experience. There are always risks vs benefits to consider. And with so many potentially bad unknowns with a novel airborne epidemic the medical communities had to do their best in protecting workers, patients and their communities.
I reassured patients, friends and on these forums about the lack of reinfections in 2020/21. But most all patients where I used to practice I would have advised vaccinations at that time. i.e. the eldery and those with high medical risks.
As you relate, those refusing the Covid vaccinations will benefit more from the therapeutics if given properly and early on.
Most HCW had COVID by the time vaccine mandates were imposed.
Also, the time the vaccine mandates were imposed was in the fall 2021, when we knew vaccination would not lead to herd immunity.
But let's pretend that all of this is not true - the vaccines were great, and the source of ending the pandemic.
While it may make sense to impose vaccines on HCW, it would be ethically wrong still imo. A lot of things make sense but are morally wrong. The Spartans inspected infants, and threw the sickly off a mountain. This made sense towards their goal - healthy fit warrior society. But I think we can all agree it was ethically wrong.
Well you are not the one(s) making those decisions. Keeping the best medical interests in your patients, workers and community dictated such. Of course not all agreed at the time.
It was based on the best medical sense and experience. There are always risks vs benefits to consider. And with so many potentially bad unknowns with a novel airborne epidemic the medical communities had to do their best in protecting workers, patients and their communities.
.
But who gets to consider those risks? Politicians? Bureaucrats? Employers? Or the people that actually assume those risks based on limited information?
As you relate, those refusing the Covid vaccinations will benefit more from the therapeutics if given properly and early on.
The current variants are mild, no need for any therapeutics.
That aside, I don't feel we have any therapeutics for COVID.
Paxlovid causes rebound, what kind of therapeutic is that?
Lagevrio has low efficacy in Merck's own RCTs, and has mutagenic potential. While probably taking it for a short duration will do nothing, the question is why take a mutagenic drug if it's efficacy is so low (if not 0).
If I were writing Rx, I'd give them anything they thought worked so they could benefit slightly from placebo effect. But in essence, none of these drugs do anything but harm the patient.
Well you are not the one(s) making those decisions. Keeping the best medical interests in your patients, workers and community dictated such. Of course not all agreed at the time.
I think there is a line and that line is coercing people into putting something into their own body they don't want.
And yes, obviously I don't get to make those decisions. Otherwise, I think we'd have done a lot better in this pandemic than we did.
It was based on the best medical sense and experience. There are always risks vs benefits to consider. And with so many potentially bad unknowns with a novel airborne epidemic the medical communities had to do their best in protecting workers, patients and their communities.
I reassured patients, friends and on these forums about the lack of reinfections in 2020/21. But most all patients where I used to practice I would have advised vaccinations at that time. i.e. the eldery and those with high medical risks.
As you relate, those refusing the Covid vaccinations will benefit more from the therapeutics if given properly and early on.
I would assume that being a physician, you would consider yourself a health/medical expert, right?
How many free lunches have pharmaceutical sales reps delivered to your office, hospital, or any medical office that you may have worked a during your career?
I have never been employed in the medical industry yet I've had countless free Pfizer lunches. Then again, I never coerced/forced someone to take Pfizer therapeutics/vaccinations.
Last edited by Mad_Jasper; 08-12-2022 at 10:31 PM..
I wonder if the politicians in charge of the NIH and CDC will follow suit? Probably not, because the last thing they care about is the health and well-being of children, as their conduct for the last 3 years proves.
No, they are freaking nuts at our CDC and NIH. Recommending injecting kids with the COVID vaccine was irresponsible.
Good for Denmark. They obviously follow the science much more than do the US CDC.
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