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Old 08-25-2022, 06:28 PM
 
Location: The High Desert
16,059 posts, read 10,652,114 times
Reputation: 31392

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We need tiers of post high school education. If community colleges were free (some are or nearly free) and students could not enroll in a university or full college without completing community college (performing well and earning an associate degree), we would have filtered out the duds, cut the cost of a college education, downsized the ivory towers, and improved the quality of college and university enrollment. There would be no need for an entrance exam. A bachelor's degree would build on the associate degree and focus almost entirely on the major and minor fields of study. Students not needing a four-year degree would get what they need or specialty training at the community college level.

It was easier decades ago. I have a master's degree but started out with an associate degree from a community college. I transferred to a state public university for two years for a BA. A few years later I went back to the "flagship" state university (while employed) for my graduate work and the masters. The cost was a hardship, it took discipline, but was manageable without loans. Now it seems that HS students are propelled into college by the education industrial/financial complex. There are many other career options that don't require a college degree, but it is socially expected. I have a friend who owes about $100k in loans for his PhD. Why he got a PhD. is beyond me but he was encouraged to do so by his university. He worked in his field of study less than one year and is not involved in it at all for the last 10+ years, but he still owes $100k.
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Old 08-25-2022, 06:42 PM
 
1,829 posts, read 801,296 times
Reputation: 2541
with biden giving away money on student loans, why not just make state university like public schools, free for everybody, just show up and take classes, free
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Old 08-25-2022, 06:42 PM
 
Location: Michigan
5,556 posts, read 6,137,328 times
Reputation: 8112
I don't think we should deny responsible consumers of community colleges and similar institutions of their ability to get training there. They have a good track record from what I understand. I'm not a fan of over-regulation, but if we are going to look at this, we need to have a more qualitative look to review schools, their claims regarding graduates, and the degree to which the loans are publicly guaranteed. IF the loans are publicly guaranteed, then the pertinent question is whether the guaranty makes financial sense for the interest received.
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Old 08-26-2022, 07:10 AM
 
Location: Cape Cod
24,324 posts, read 17,065,160 times
Reputation: 35594
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristineVA View Post
I am with you on the student loan bailout. Have never been a fan of that AT ALL. In fact, it just pisses me off.

That said, would you call a teacher a person with a worthless degree? We need teachers in this country...bad. We pay them very little, yet most of the "good" school districts require a master's degree, though they will often let you start without one. Many students go to 4 year colleges for that degree because they often offer an accelerated masters that can be done in 5 years. Not cheap. So you can come out of school with potentially 5 years of debts ($100K is not unheard of) and you land a nice $45K per year job, full of aggravation, and you get to figure out how to pay that off. I would NEVER take on debt like that, but teaching is a calling for some people and that's what they want to do. I think we need to be careful about lumping people like that in with the "students who didn't make wise decisions." Because we need teachers.



I didn't say teachers have a worthless degree. Where did you get that idea? Teaching is tough job. In my state one needs a 4 year major plus a minor in education and then within 5 years a Masters. How is someone supposed to go through 4+ years of college, get a job that starts off with low pay and then add on a Masters? There is a lot of sacrifice being made and that is why there is a shortage of teachers everywhere and we haven't even considered the punk kids.



Being a teacher is a tough job but once you settle in the pay and perks are great.



As for the "students who didn't make wise decisions." there are plenty of them that have been misguided and they have worthless degrees. We should not be paying for their mistakes. What is next for Biden will we next have to pay off the credit cards of young people that went crazy with spending?
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Old 08-26-2022, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Kansas
25,788 posts, read 21,942,589 times
Reputation: 26421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerobime227 View Post
I think that's the kind of mentality that is a MAJOR problem. You SHOULD care who they let in and for what. Hitler was let into Art school and we saw where that got us. Stalin went to the Gori Church School. And yeah, you can say they were much younger then, so no one could have predicted what monsters they'd become, but really? I find it VERY hard to believe that even at young ages there weren't some signs what kind off psychopaths they were.
So by allowing Hitler to go to Art School and Stalin to a church school, we created psychopaths? I am guessing you didn't go to college and study psychology! I can make no sense of that.

I thought your issue was in that students that weren't very bright shouldn't be going to college, but now I guess you think psychopaths should not go to college. You do realize that diagnosing sociopaths and psychopathy is not an easy thing to do, and unless they have committed a crime, they have every right to go to any school that will take them.

Not sure what exactly your point is.
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Old 08-26-2022, 04:30 PM
 
Location: California
37,097 posts, read 42,098,467 times
Reputation: 34962
No 4 year college or university should offer incoming freshmen remedial courses in anything. High schools should be taking care of this but community colleges can pick up the slack for those who are lacking but motivated, which is key to college success. There's just no reason to be admitted to a 4 year if you aren't up to speed on the basics.
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Old 08-26-2022, 06:25 PM
 
1,243 posts, read 547,288 times
Reputation: 1153
It's not as simple as just strict entrance requirements. The entire culture needs to shift back to an emphasis on junior/community colleges, or trade schools, as realistic and responsible options. Between the movie narrative of the college experience, and the notion that community College is beneath so many despite offering the same core courses, we've pushed most students straight into more expensive 4 year colleges.

A real push on community colleges would see students save money, seamlessly transfer to a state college for their major coursework, and it may help students who couldn't distinguish themselves in high school but get it together to achieve a high GPA. Most community colleges offer easy transition to the State's 4 year schools, but in a changing world of students choosing community college, private universities would also benefit by partnering with nearby community colleges to recruit students with competitive resumes.
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