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Exactly part of the reason I could never support this proposal.
Who is most likely to benefit from it? Not poor men, because they have no money to take for child support. Not irresponsible men because they have ways and already construct their own financial abortion plans whether its moving out of reach, working off the books, or otherwise hiding assets.
That leaves generally responsible men who are going to ask a court to absolve them which imo will be mainly men who are middle class, upper class and wealthy men who can afford to support the children they father.
Picture the court room. Men who appear to have stepped out of Greys Anatomy.......double and triple 6 figure earning surgeons who had oopsies and fell into the cute Starbucks barista across from the hospital and fathered a child they need to distance themselves from before the wife who may overlook their infidelity but not their love child finds out. Next will be similarly situated attorneys, politicians and others from the high earning professional classes.
Then we will have the single version of same type men. Next the middle class men who can afford to support their child but just don't want to.
Still lining up to support these children as a taxpayer when their mom can't and their dad won't? I'm not. I might reconsider if the state sells tickets to these side show court rooms that would be sufficient to fund support for the kids.
Exactly. I've ask at least twice for those who are worried about how unfair it is that a man should support his child about my sister's situation. They married right out of high school, two kids, got pregnant with #3. Her husband insisted she abort as he did not want another child. She refused which is part of what lead to the divorce. So should he legally not have to pay any support for that child. Should he not have to be a parent to that child because he wasn't ready for another child and she had the legal option to an abortion? Should he had be able to force her to abort. No one would answer.
What seems hard is your answering my question. As one who complains about receiving no answers to your questions, I will ask again for the third or fourth time, what are the legal rights of the unmarried father in relation to the pregnancy. If your answer is 'none', then they are not equal. If your answer is other than 'none', then what is it.
The difficulty that all pro abortion advocates on this board face when trying to understand this is simple.
They do not believe that life begins at conception.
They see the baby as if the baby is a wisdom tooth or a skin mole. Something annoying that they just get removed. They do not recognize LIFE. They do not recognize the mother or the father.
All I can think of is the absolute cognitive dissonance they encounter when they attend baby showers. Maybe they refuse, since there is nothing to prepare for since pregnancy does not precede the birth of child. It's a mere wisdom tooth to be yanked. Half a day off work. Not attending a baby shower and refusing to acknowledge the pregnancy would be a consistent viewpoint.
It's an extreme level of narcissism. Just another psychopathic layer.
Isn't you who have been telling us birth control is not 100% effective?
Bottom line is that women can legally avoid future financial responsibility of a child by simply abort, men cannot.
At least acknowledge this. Like the poster said two pages ago, life is not fair.
I’ve always acknowledged life isn’t fair. Both sexes deal with things considered unfair. A man has a choice. Use bc himself being as much in control of his sperm as possible. If his or both parties bc fails, he should make sure ahead of time what his partner feels about abortion and if he’s on the same page. Once a child is born even if he never wanted it, the child needs financial support. Many men just don’t pay.
I’ve always acknowledged life isn’t fair. Both sexes deal with things considered unfair. A man has a choice. Use bc himself being as much in control of his sperm as possible. If his or both parties bc fails, he should make sure ahead of time what his partner feels about abortion and if he’s on the same page. Once a child is born even if he never wanted it, the child needs financial support. Many men just don’t pay.
Ok. I agree
This said, I don't think anybody need to be defensive or taking the hypothetical scenario so personally. ( not saying you do)
All I am saying is that
Women can legally avoid her future financially responsibility of a child by simply abort, men cannot.
This said, I don't think anybody need to be defensive or taking the hypothetical scenario so personally. ( not saying you do)
All I am saying is that
Women can legally avoid her future financially responsibility of a child by simply abort, men cannot.
That's it no more no less.
No men can’t abort a pregnancy but many abort their financial and emotional support the minute they find out a pregnancy has happened. The child grows into adulthood without ever knowing his father or getting support of any kind.
Men in general should be more pro active using their own bc. Many don’t relinquishing their bc responsibility to the woman. Then some are surprised when the woman aborts or gives birth. Like women, men should be expected to be in charge of his own reproduction. Know what your partner would do in case of unplanned pregnancy. Some think expecting a man to care for his sperm is man hating/blaming. No, both parties are responsible from the get go. Thankfully a great deal of men and women are responsible and, or, are in agreement to the pregnancy. Knowing your partner goes a long way, especially if you don’t want children.
Thankfully a great deal of men and women are responsible and, or, are in agreement to the pregnancy. Knowing your partner goes a long way, especially if you don’t want children.
Which is why many of us don't have to worry about issue like this. I honestly have not seen many irresponsible men and women in real life.
I dont recall anyone suggesting ALL MEN get a vasectomy. Men who are not ready to become fathers at this time and are in fear of getting someone pregnant and having to pay child support. Really does everything have to be spelled out. The topic is men opting out of paying child support because they were not ready to become parents yet could not force the woman they impregnated to have an abortion. It would be logical that the poster was speaking of these particular men, not all men.
Why would these men's responsibility for birth control not be in question. I would hope the women they are having sex with are on BC and these men are using condoms, but we all know not every one does and bc is not 100% all the time and unintended and unwanted pregnancies occur, always have, always will so stop pretending like you can end it by talking about BC.
If someone wants a vasectomy or a tubal, etc. they or their insurance company pay for it. They are the ones having the procedure and no one is forcing them (although I would support government funded sterilization). Same with freezing sperm and embryo, you pay for it. I'm not sure why you are asking.
Lots of factors in choosing to get a vasectomy, with cost being one of them.
sOOOO many unwanted pregnancies can be avoided by both parties using birth control. That means men and women, and with abortion laws being in place, a woman should be extremely responsible as only she can get pregnant.
You’re assuming everyone has health insurance, which isn’t the case, and you avoided the question of who’s going to pay for the procedure when a man and woman decide to have a child with the frozen sperm?
The difficulty that all pro abortion advocates on this board face when trying to understand this is simple.
They do not believe that life begins at conception.
They see the baby as if the baby is a wisdom tooth or a skin mole. Something annoying that they just get removed. They do not recognize LIFE. They do not recognize the mother or the father.
All I can think of is the absolute cognitive dissonance they encounter when they attend baby showers. Maybe they refuse, since there is nothing to prepare for since pregnancy does not precede the birth of child. It's a mere wisdom tooth to be yanked. Half a day off work. Not attending a baby shower and refusing to acknowledge the pregnancy would be a consistent viewpoint.
It's an extreme level of narcissism. Just another psychopathic layer.
Oh for goodness’ sake.
While we have systems in place where people can make life and freeze it, implant multiple instances and then “selectively reduce” it if it all takes, and be lauded for taking an heroic journey in the pursuit of noble parenthood, you ain’t got a leg to stand on.
Lots of factors in choosing to get a vasectomy, with cost being one of them.
sOOOO many unwanted pregnancies can be avoided by both parties using birth control. That means men and women, and with abortion laws being in place, a woman should be extremely responsible as only she can get pregnant.
You’re assuming everyone has health insurance, which isn’t the case, and you avoided the question of who’s going to pay for the procedure when a man and woman decide to have a child with the frozen sperm?
If both parties are using frozen sperm they’re in a relationship. How they work out the financial aspects is on the two of em.
While we have systems in place where people can make life and freeze it, implant multiple instances and then “selectively reduce” it if it all takes, and be lauded for taking an heroic journey in the pursuit of noble parenthood, you ain’t got a leg to stand on.
Talk about cognitive dissonance.
Really? Then why are posters unable to grasp the issue that a father would not want his child aborted?
There is no RECOGNITION of a parental relationship. At all.
It's like the father doesn't exist. And the abortion is simply pulling a wisdom tooth. Because in pregnancy there is only ONE body: The mother's. There is no separate life. There is no child.
THAT, my friend, is cognitive dissonance.
Tell me, do those who say fathers have no say in pregnancy also congratulate male coworkers when they announce their wives/gfs are pregnant? Do they say, awesome congrats on being a father?
Or do they stare blankly, brows furrowed in total confusion ... because they revert to abortion discussions like this where all they did was bang the keyboard about how men don't exist and had nothing to do with the pregnancy? And don't understand why this man is claiming he is having a child?
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