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Old 09-19-2022, 06:22 PM
 
19,623 posts, read 17,913,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AADAD View Post
No I am stating that many medical students elect to become nurses. They do so because individual practice is very experience to start and nurses are now earning 70% of a in hospital doctor salary without the headaches.

Educationally nurses attend classes and clinical 8 hours per day and typically study 6 more hours or more per day.

Your numbers are way, way off.

According to the BLS median RN pay in 2021 was $77,600 (10th percentile $59,400, 90th percentile $120,500).

According the BLS median MD pay in 2021 was $208,000 which included part timers down to 30 hours. IM docs. with zero experience start at a local hospital here in Dallas at $290,000. I know this for sure because my DIL got one of those offers.

So no broadly RNs are not earning 70% of what doctors earn.

Doctors need not start individual practices. Most begin careers employed by hospitals, clinics or as part of practice groups.


Medical students rarely become nurses. I'm sure some small number of medical students flunk out and then go to nursing school but that'd be it. Why would/how often would someone graduate from medical school and then become a nurse?

As I mentioned above If you mean pre-med students who fail to win a medical school slot sometimes decide to become nurses, I'm sure some do.

Educationally I'm sure nursing school is challenging. However, from a brainpower perspective engineering, math, physics, chemistry, pre-med/biology etc. are more challenging.
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Old 09-19-2022, 07:42 PM
 
Location: Lyon, France, Whidbey Island WA
20,834 posts, read 17,045,216 times
Reputation: 11534
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
Your numbers are way, way off.

According to the BLS median RN pay in 2021 was $77,600 (10th percentile $59,400, 90th percentile $120,500).

According the BLS median MD pay in 2021 was $208,000 which included part timers down to 30 hours. IM docs. with zero experience start at a local hospital here in Dallas at $290,000. I know this for sure because my DIL got one of those offers.

So no broadly RNs are not earning 70% of what doctors earn.

Doctors need not start individual practices. Most begin careers employed by hospitals, clinics or as part of practice groups.


Medical students rarely become nurses. I'm sure some small number of medical students flunk out and then go to nursing school but that'd be it. Why would/how often would someone graduate from medical school and then become a nurse?

As I mentioned above If you mean pre-med students who fail to win a medical school slot sometimes decide to become nurses, I'm sure some do.

Educationally I'm sure nursing school is challenging. However, from a brainpower perspective engineering, math, physics, chemistry, pre-med/biology etc. are more challenging.
Many of us earn >150 per year....easily. During the pandemic we were earning more. Congrats to your DIL. Most of our docs work much longer hours than we do. They are on call 24 hours while on duty. Many sleep in the hospital or at hotels. They are amazing people. Nurse have little to no call. We get sleep every night and we can pick up in two weeks and go somewhere new. It's a very very good job.

Just an fyi there is a strike in Minnesota right now. Nurses are pulling in 12k/wk. Calc that out =) WE are among the most highly trained people, able to walk into any hospital and take care of a patient on the edge of survival....we are worth the $$. Ask around, you'll see.

Got any other examples of logic and research....?
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Old 09-19-2022, 08:24 PM
 
19,623 posts, read 17,913,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AADAD View Post
Many of us earn >150 per year....easily. During the pandemic we were earning more. Congrats to your DIL. Most of our docs work much longer hours than we do. They are on call 24 hours while on duty. Many sleep in the hospital or at hotels. They are amazing people. Nurse have little to no call. We get sleep every night and we can pick up in two weeks and go somewhere new. It's a very very good job.

Just an fyi there is a strike in Minnesota right now. Nurses are pulling in 12k/wk. Calc that out =) WE are among the most highly trained people, able to walk into any hospital and take care of a patient on the edge of survival....we are worth the $$. Ask around, you'll see.

Got any other examples of logic and research....?
That's terrible analysis.

1. On average full time doctors work significantly more hours than nurses (51 or 52 vs. 37 or 38). A. that's no surprise B. that's also part of my over all point.........nurses are not overworked generally.

1.1. As I noted my DIL is an MD, my son is a neurosurgery resident as well I understand being a physician is really tough.

2. According to the data, unless you think the BLS is lying, the 90th percentile earning nurse makes $120,500......so no - not a lot of nurses make north of $150K or $12K per week regularly it's simply not possible. There are outlier MDs in every big city who earn over $1MM per. so what?

3. RNs are absolutely not among the most highly educated/trained people that's just absurd.
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Old 09-20-2022, 12:03 AM
 
Location: middle of everywhere
1,863 posts, read 4,292,127 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenvalleyfan View Post
RN minimum 2yrs AA Degree. LPN is less, and most hospitals if not all have eliminated the LPN.
That was before Covid. Ever since then, LPNs have been recruited back into the hospitals to help with staffing. And it still continues even after the downturn, because many RNs that left will not return to depressed wages as before. They have left the field altogether or continue to travel.
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Old 09-20-2022, 04:56 AM
 
Location: Lyon, France, Whidbey Island WA
20,834 posts, read 17,045,216 times
Reputation: 11534
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
That's terrible analysis.

1. On average full time doctors work significantly more hours than nurses (51 or 52 vs. 37 or 38). A. that's no surprise B. that's also part of my over all point.........nurses are not overworked generally.

1.1. As I noted my DIL is an MD, my son is a neurosurgery resident as well I understand being a physician is really tough.

2. According to the data, unless you think the BLS is lying, the 90th percentile earning nurse makes $120,500......so no - not a lot of nurses make north of $150K or $12K per week regularly it's simply not possible. There are outlier MDs in every big city who earn over $1MM per. so what?

3. RNs are absolutely not among the most highly educated/trained people that's just absurd.
After speaking to you for a few times now I can conclude only that you are either are poorly informed or (more likely) just quite closed minded...

As to your articulation of your blind spot, so be it. Why you insist upon forwarding either is a mystery is me and I suspect others.

Finally a bit of advice. Use the call light.
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Old 09-20-2022, 05:59 AM
 
21,382 posts, read 7,904,188 times
Reputation: 18149
Quote:
Originally Posted by AADAD View Post
After speaking to you for a few times now I can conclude only that you are either are poorly informed or (more likely) just quite closed minded...

As to your articulation of your blind spot, so be it. Why you insist upon forwarding either is a mystery is me and I suspect others.

Finally a bit of advice. Use the call light.
If anyone wanted to go into medicine, I'd recommend being an NP over an MD.

From every standpoint, financial, time of education. pay, work-life balance, flexibility, it's a much better option overall.
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Old 09-20-2022, 06:43 AM
 
19,623 posts, read 17,913,246 times
Reputation: 17152
Quote:
Originally Posted by AADAD View Post
After speaking to you for a few times now I can conclude only that you are either are poorly informed or (more likely) just quite closed minded...

As to your articulation of your blind spot, so be it. Why you insist upon forwarding either is a mystery is me and I suspect others.

Finally a bit of advice. Use the call light.
You keep saying I'm ill informed while you keep offering mostly provably incorrect/bogus supporting information. I'm not the one with a blind spot.
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Old 09-20-2022, 07:11 AM
 
19,623 posts, read 17,913,246 times
Reputation: 17152
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
If anyone wanted to go into medicine, I'd recommend being an NP over an MD.

From every standpoint, financial, time of education. pay, work-life balance, flexibility, it's a much better option overall.


I'd agree with a lot of that. However, the average NP makes about $115,000 per the BLS. According to MedScape in '21 the lowest paid full time MDs were in Public Health averaging $243,000......the average of all full time specialists $368,000. To my eye that's an easy win for the MDs.
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Old 09-20-2022, 07:29 AM
 
21,382 posts, read 7,904,188 times
Reputation: 18149
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
I'd agree with a lot of that. However, the average NP makes about $115,000 per the BLS. According to MedScape in '21 the lowest paid full time MDs were in Public Health averaging $243,000......the average of all full time specialists $368,000. To my eye that's an easy win for the MDs.
Compare the education costs, the years to actually start working, malpractice insurance, hours worked, vacation time, etc. All the time sacrificed. It's also easier to switch specialties mid-career if they want a change.

An NP can start working at 24. How old are doctors when they actually start working?

Work-life balance and cost, NP is a better deal overall. No comparison. At all.

Now, if the only thing you care about is income, then yes MDs make more per year. But that's not news to anyone.
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Old 09-20-2022, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Lyon, France, Whidbey Island WA
20,834 posts, read 17,045,216 times
Reputation: 11534
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
You keep saying I'm ill informed while you keep offering mostly provably incorrect/bogus supporting information. I'm not the one with a blind spot.
You're funny....

I will share here not for you in particular but for the viewer. CoV19 changed Nursing. It created a nursing shortage to where now most hospitals have shortages of RN especially those who are trained in critical care All units in our hospital struggle every day to make staffing ratios. Thousands of nurses retired, others left (or were fired) for refusing the vaccines. Still more began to travel. The reimbursements were an eye opener and very high.

At one point every medical center minimum weekly was $5000 per week. Extensions were offered at higher rates. At one point, nurses in major centers were earning $40K in a month....and more.

The loss of these nurses to travel created a new world for nurses. Talented, accomplished and highly trained able to walk into a new hospital and go to work. Once we knew the charting system we rolled. Doctors were grateful to have this infusion of talent, administrators god knows how they paid for it and despite awesome efforts most unvaccinated people hospitalized for 2 years they did die. It was an immense tragedy and many of us still hold a special place for the victims of this pandemic. Those of us who are certified in Critical Care brough knowledge and capabilities to rural hospitals and physicians and house nurses welcomed our input. In addition, we conceived of respiratory strategies that in some cases enhanced survival.

It was a valuable time in our careers. And we were paid well above anything we could have conceived. But as another poster points out that is only one of the criteria.

Nurses, prior to modern medicine formed the backbone of health care in the world and the female pioneers led legendary missions. Nuns who travelled from England France and Ireland set up homes which have become the huge institutions we now know as eminent Medical Centers. They changed the world.

So when we have an arrogant or baby doctor approach us with disdain we remember who we are and let them walk on. We only stop them, if they are going to kill someone.
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