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Keep something in mind …. lower testosterone is a real thing, as you mentioned. But it seems that you don’t really understand the full extent of the implications and effects of that.
As I mentioned previously, low T is a major cause of clinical depression in males. This used to occur mostly as men age … dropping 1% per year, after 40. Now we have male adolescents and teenagers with insufficient Test.
Depression can literally incapacitate a person, making simple existence difficult, and success beyond their grasp. Laziness can be overcome by motivation and effort, but depression can be an obstacle that a person simply cannot defeat through shear will and desire, primarily because depression kills will and desire, and forces the sufferer into physical illness and psychological hiding. It’s hard to create a successful life when maintaining one’s will to live is a daily challenge, which is what depression does to people. That’s why the suicide rates are increasing in young men.
This argument “Stand on your own two feet”! But I have a broken leg? So what, you still have two feet don’t you? That’s basically your argument here, and it just doesn’t address the reality we’re talking about .
You seem to be responding to points I didn't make.
To keep it simple if any man has medical problems it's primarily his responsibility to seek out treatments. Today low T is really easy to improve, especially if one lives in a big city.
2. Again, how is it a crisis. Are men not still dominant in STEM fields. Are men not still dominant in Business, more male CEOs, more male politicians, do men not hold the most wealth and resources? Was it a crisis when women were outperformed by men in academics. What is the crisis?
3 & 4. Men have always died more of unnatural causes. Is testosterone a crisis. First its too much testosterone then not enough. What is the crisis?
5. What. What is with all the talk about fat women. You are defiantly wrong there. So is it a female crisis?
You still have not defined a crisis.
All the talk of "toxic masculinity" being a problem yet to change the things you stated as crisis would be to make men more effeminate, more studious-bookworms, reduction in the male behaviors that define men.
As far as testosterone levels, it seems to me it is largely an environmental and behavioral issue. Who controls industry and politics and who controls mens behavior? Again, a male crisis?
Well, per your endless game playing there would be no definition I could offer that you would accept.
Because the majority of older men are married to much younger teenage girls?
Do you think the biological and evolutionary basis; earlier puberty and compelled marriage to older men, formed desire to mate with older men some tens of thousands years later?
If this is true, would it not be the same biological and evolutionary basis for young men to be effeminate, somber, quiet, bashful, unmotivated, withdrawn, anti-social, violent some tens of thousands of years later.
Some of our extant cultural traits stem from biology. Some arise via social engineering.
The most elegant way to distinguish between the two is by examining health outcomes, such as fertility rates.
Those dispositions that are contrary to biology are generally associated with poorer health outcomes across the board: Physical and mental health, fertility, reproductive success, social network size, self-reported happiness, physical attractiveness.
As we discussed in a related thread, nature clearly has its own ideas on biological norms of gender-specific behavior.
Wherever traits emerge that are aberrant to biology, nature seems to have a knack for ablating it off the face of the earth. Bearing that in mind, a cynic may argue that feminism may simply be nature working as intended. It may be an ecological safeguard that switches off an organism's health-seeking behavior and reproductive drive, among other things, when it starts doing strange things.
Well, per your endless game playing there would be no definition I could offer that you would accept.
I'm not game playing. You have not tried to define it. You give talking points, I understand they are talking points and I understand to some, and I say few men, it may be an issue in there life. Lets start with the definition of crisis.
a time of intense difficulty, trouble, or danger
a time when a difficult or important decision must be made
the turning point for better or worse
an unstable or crucial time or state of affairs in which a decisive change is impending.
I failing to see how any of these points meets the criteria.
Are they mens issues that can be controlled to some extent by men, yes I give your that. So why is there no discussion on what can be done for men who want to attend college but cant? What can be done to help ease environmental impacts on men's sexual health? I'm not sure what can be done, morally, so that men can bang any female of his choice.
Some of our extant cultural traits stem from biology. Some arise via social engineering.
The most elegant way to distinguish between the two is by examining health outcomes, such as fertility rates.
Those dispositions that are contrary to biology are generally associated with poorer health outcomes across the board: Physical and mental health, fertility, reproductive success, social network size, self-reported happiness, physical attractiveness.
As we discussed in a related thread, nature clearly has its own ideas on biological norms of gender-specific behavior.
Wherever traits emerge that are aberrant to biology, nature seems to have a knack for ablating it off the face of the earth. Bearing that in mind, a cynic may argue that feminism may simply be nature working as intended. It may be an ecological safeguard that switches off an organism's health-seeking behavior and reproductive drive, among other things, when it starts doing strange things.
You seem to be responding to points I didn't make.
To keep it simple if any man has medical problems it's primarily his responsibility to seek out treatments. Today low T is really easy to improve, especially if one lives in a big city.
My response was addressing the statement that you don’t feel sorry for young men, and basically that it’s the fault of any able bodied person who fails. I disagree, in that someone suffering depression is not fully “able bodied”.
You make the same basic point by placing full responsibility for addressing the medical problem on those suffering the medical problem. Again, this shows a lack of understanding about the nature of depression, and it’s effects. This is a disorder that affects your brain chemistry, and how your brain functions.
When it comes to younger men, teenagers and adolescents, it’s unreasonable to expect them to be able to manage their own health issues, especially if the health issue involves mental health. That’s the dichotomy .. persons suffering mental health issues are least able to deal with those issues themselves, for obvious reasons.
Your post isn't written very clearly, so there are a number of ways to interpret it.
1. "If the romantic age gap is rooted in past sociobiological evolution, wouldn't the same be true for amotivation in today's men?"
2. "If the romantic age gap is rooted in sociobiological evolution, won't amotivation in today's men drive the trend for future evolution?"
I answered question 1. If it's question 2 you meant, then the answer is also no.
Present day biology, such as earlier maturity in girls, either arose over hundreds of thousands of years of evolution or via ontology. In the former instance, the changes over time have to be incremental in a manner that sustains or improves viability.
The second set of traits you mention are associated with poorer viability, so enjoy no sociobiological leverage.
I'm not game playing. You have not tried to define it. You give talking points, I understand they are talking points and I understand to some, and I say few men, it may be an issue in there life. Lets start with the definition of crisis.
a time of intense difficulty, trouble, or danger
a time when a difficult or important decision must be made
the turning point for better or worse
an unstable or crucial time or state of affairs in which a decisive change is impending.
I failing to see how any of these points meets the criteria.
Are they mens issues that can be controlled to some extent by men, yes I give your that. So why is there no discussion on what can be done for men who want to attend college but cant? What can be done to help ease environmental impacts on men's sexual health? I'm not sure what can be done, morally, so that men can bang any female of his choice.
As your key hang up seems to be the word crisis. Strike it an insert deficit, increasing deficit, lower achievement etc.
_________
So far as playing games. You've repeatedly defended the mistaken claim that women could not get loans previous to 1974. I offered all sorts of supporting data including event times and whatnot and you still rambled on with it.
_________
Per K-12 male/female imbalances that lead to more women earning degrees the problem is quite simple. Modern K-12 better develops and supports girls over boys, more girls are ready for college than boys and so on.
My response was addressing the statement that you don’t feel sorry for young men, and basically that it’s the fault of any able bodied person who fails. I disagree, in that someone suffering depression is not fully “able bodied”.
You make the same basic point by placing full responsibility for addressing the medical problem on those suffering the medical problem. Again, this shows a lack of understanding about the nature of depression, and it’s effects. This is a disorder that affects your brain chemistry, and how your brain functions.
When it comes to younger men, teenagers and adolescents, it’s unreasonable to expect them to be able to manage their own health issues, especially if the health issue involves mental health. That’s the dichotomy .. persons suffering mental health issues are least able to deal with those issues themselves, for obvious reasons.
Please don't read everything I write in a negative light.
1. Those with moderate to severe depression are most definitely not able bodied. Thankfully, treatment and or drugs help many.
2. Anyone with a medical problem must seek out treatment. Doctors are not going to magically show up at the door.
3. I don't expect kids to manage significant medical issues without parental/guardian guidance.
4. Don't think for a second I'm soft-selling depression. My son is a neurosurgery resident doing a neurophysiology fellowship year. He told me one of the questions psychiatrists ask self-described depressed people is, "When I say the word funeral what images appear in your mind?".......most people talk about the funerals of parents, grandparents, friends, siblings etc. Very depressed/suicidal people often see themselves being buried.
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