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Old 09-27-2022, 09:50 AM
 
3,113 posts, read 933,924 times
Reputation: 1177

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
That never would happen when there is a viral infection. The immune system would see the whole virus, not parts of it sticking out from the body's own cells.
No that is how it works with a virus. MHC-1 molecules will only display peptides between 8-10 amino acids long. There are over 1,000 amino acids in the (S)pike protein alone, not to mention in the entire virus.

The reason your body does this is efficiency. Take a whole virus, it will never be completely homologous in its amino acid structure to even an exact copy (RNA or DNA) of itself. This is because every virus assumes a coat from the own cell that created it.

So instead, the "happy path" is the MHC-1 binds to none-self matching peptides that allows for quick identification of all none-self intruders.

Things do break down, however. It has to do with Germinal Centers (GCs). There are simply too many peptide combos in your body for your body to sort through. However, typically, viruses enter through a mucous layer which will prejudice your body how to respond in the future course of the infection.

However, when a vaccine bypasses the mucous layer, it can directly trigger an immune response that may recognize some peptides found in your body, and since this is often the systemic immune response (sera) it travels throughout your body which leads to an increase probability of this happening.

 
Old 09-27-2022, 09:53 AM
 
8,192 posts, read 3,396,865 times
Reputation: 6061
Quote:
Originally Posted by AfricanSunset View Post
No that is how it works with a virus. MHC-1 molecules will only display peptides between 8-10 amino acids long. There are over 1,000 amino acids in the (S)pike protein alone, not to mention in the entire virus.

The reason your body does this is efficiency. Take a whole virus, it will never be completely homologous in its amino acid structure to even an exact copy (RNA or DNA) of itself. This is because every virus assumes a coat from the own cell that created it.

So instead, the "happy path" is the MHC-1 binds to none-self matching peptides that allows for quick identification of all none-self intruders.

Things do break down, however. It has to do with Germinal Centers (GCs). There are simply too many peptide combos in your body for your body to sort through. However, typically, viruses enter through a mucous layer which will prejudice your body how to respond in the future course of the infection.

However, when a vaccine bypasses the mucous layer, it can directly trigger an immune response that may recognize some peptides found in your body, and since this is often the systemic immune response (sera) it travels throughout your body which leads to an increase probability of this happening.
Ok, but then why are these vaccines (supposedly) effective at preventing severe inflammation and death from covid? We know they do NOT prevent infection, only an extreme inflammatory reaction. WHY is the immune system tolerant of the covid virus as a result of the vaccine. It should be the opposite.
 
Old 09-27-2022, 10:00 AM
 
3,113 posts, read 933,924 times
Reputation: 1177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
Ok, but then why are these vaccines (supposedly) effective at preventing severe inflammation and death from covid? We know they do NOT prevent infection, only an extreme inflammatory reaction. WHY is the immune system tolerant of the covid virus as a result of the vaccine. It should be the opposite.
I'm not sure they do. But the official explanation is this (this is what a mainstream scientist will tell you)

T-cells (CTLs or CD8+ cells) will still recognize the virus even if there is immune escape to the RBD of the Spike protein. Also, incubation period is short (<2 days) therefore you will still have infection but it won't progress to severe disease.

I don't believe this, this is the official explanation.
 
Old 09-27-2022, 10:07 AM
 
8,192 posts, read 3,396,865 times
Reputation: 6061
Quote:
Originally Posted by AfricanSunset View Post
I'm not sure they do. But the official explanation is this (this is what a mainstream scientist will tell you)

T-cells (CTLs or CD8+ cells) will still recognize the virus even if there is immune escape to the RBD of the Spike protein. Also, incubation period is short (<2 days) therefore you will still have infection but it won't progress to severe disease.

I don't believe this, this is the official explanation.
The official explanation doesn't make sense. The explanation I gave makes sense, I think. There is no other way to make sense of the (supposed) fact that the vaccine lessens symptoms but does not prevent infection.

Symptoms are caused by the inflammatory response of the immune system. When symptoms (of anything) are lessened, it's because the immune response is decreased, for example by taking steroids or other immune-suppressing drugs.

These vaccines seem to act as an immune suppressing drug. Tell my why my explanation cannot be true.
 
Old 09-27-2022, 10:14 AM
 
3,113 posts, read 933,924 times
Reputation: 1177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good4Nothin View Post
The official explanation doesn't make sense. The explanation I gave makes sense, I think. There is no other way to make sense of the (supposed) fact that the vaccine lessens symptoms but does not prevent infection.

Symptoms are caused by the inflammatory response of the immune system. When symptoms (of anything) are lessened, it's because the immune response is decreased, for example by taking steroids or other immune-suppressing drugs.

These vaccines seem to act as an immune suppressing drug. Tell my why my explanation cannot be true.
With most respiratory viruses, they will cause pneumonia if they manage to make it your lower respiratory tract (lungs) and begin replicating.

Now, not all respiratory viruses can replicate in your lungs, that’s a different story. SARS-CoV-2 can as well as many influenza viruses.

So if your immune system does a good job, you will only have symptoms in your upper respiratory tract (sore throat, runny nose). If the virus progresses to the bronchi you can get bronchitis. And to the lungs pneumonia.
 
Old 09-27-2022, 10:38 AM
 
8,192 posts, read 3,396,865 times
Reputation: 6061
Quote:
Originally Posted by AfricanSunset View Post
With most respiratory viruses, they will cause pneumonia if they manage to make it your lower respiratory tract (lungs) and begin replicating.

Now, not all respiratory viruses can replicate in your lungs, that’s a different story. SARS-CoV-2 can as well as many influenza viruses.

So if your immune system does a good job, you will only have symptoms in your upper respiratory tract (sore throat, runny nose). If the virus progresses to the bronchi you can get bronchitis. And to the lungs pneumonia.
You are missing my point. Most covid deaths resulted from an extreme inflammatory reaction of the immune system! (cytokine storm)
 
Old 09-27-2022, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Houston, TX
1,652 posts, read 1,228,654 times
Reputation: 2717
I read somewhere that the life expectancy of white people in this country is on a pretty sharp decline. Just sayin’.
 
Old 09-27-2022, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Sector 001
15,936 posts, read 12,236,371 times
Reputation: 16104
Isn't the idea of a vaccine to make the body detect and kill the virus before it has a chance to spread all over the body which would be the primary cause of increased inflammation and symptoms?

I got the bivalent booster and feel fine. I've long been a vaccine supporter though. It makes sense to prime the immune system ahead of time to make it more efficient.

I get it, you will always have people tell stories about how they never got a flu shot, never got sick, got a flu shot, got the flu... you can find someone on the internet who will claim absolutely anything... we are dealing with the law of averages here. I quite frankly stopped believing the vaccine paranoia some time ago. Real world experience has shown me unvaccinated individuals tend to get hit with covid worse.

I'd rather go with my senses and experience over hearsay. I quite frankly trust nobody except myself. And hey, Donald Trump said to get them. Donald Trump says they are safe, whether any of his supporters want to acknowledge this or not. Some say this makes him controlled opposition, part of the deep state. Quite frankly you can spin a conspiracy that goes so deep pretty soon people think Alien creatures are inhabiting inner earth, except that can't be possible because the earth is flat and the stars are holograms.

Spike proteins are infecting others. Okay then, even if it's true I'm not going to worry about it. Life's too short to resist what is, at least within reason. When they come to disarm us, I'll go out shooting. Until then, I don't care.
 
Old 09-27-2022, 01:02 PM
 
17,188 posts, read 16,333,812 times
Reputation: 28555
The thing that made Covid innocuous is that it went through the immune systems of healthy people which neutralized it into a run of the mill cold.
 
Old 09-27-2022, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Where there is too much snow!
7,685 posts, read 13,117,432 times
Reputation: 4376
Quote:
Originally Posted by springfieldva View Post
Only back in January the President was trying to force employers to mandate that their employees get vaccinated which he was unsuccessful in doing.

Flash forward a little over 6 months later and, according to this same President, Covid is no longer a big deal.

Well, there you have it.
Sippy-cup bunker dwelling pedo Joe Obiden the bumbling idiot just can't make up his demented old feeble mind.
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