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Putin invaded Ukraine....illegally. There is no ambiguity here....many of us on here get information from both domestic and international sources. There is one source of what is considered true propaganda and that comes out of Russia....where a journalist can be arrested for calling the Special Military Operation a war as they did in the early days of the war....and still can be if they report negative news. Nobody is buying Russian propaganda because it's blatantly stupid.
History is written by the victors. If Russia wins (though I don't think they will) this Russian "propaganda" will be in the history books as the truth.
We have been throwing away money honey for years on no win wars. Look at Bush 1 and 2 and their 3 failed wars and money lost and life.
Of course. All for nothing. But the US wasn't being invaded by people from all over the world entering our border at the time. The money thrown at Ukraine should be devoted to securing our own border, and to our own natural disaster recovery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVNomad
Do you think the US (and the other western countries) have any interest in promoting and protecting liberal democracy? Or do you think that given our other priorities/problems/responsibilities/etc. we need to recognize and tolerate imperialism, where bigger countries (typically with autocratic governments) just take over smaller/weaker countries?
The US should stay out.
They should stop also interfering with other countries' elections.
This country is famous for using bullying and provocation tactics.
The administration should take all the funds thrown freely to Ukraine and use them to support Americans suffering from natural disaster, and should use them to secure our own border. America first.
Of course. All for nothing. But the US wasn't being invaded by people from all over the world entering our border at the time. The money thrown at Ukraine should be devoted to securing our own border, and to our own natural disaster recovery.
The US should stay out.
They should stop also interfering with other countries' elections.
This country is famous for using bullying and provocation tactics.
The administration should take all the funds thrown freely to Ukraine and use them to support Americans suffering from natural disaster, and should use them to secure our own border. America first.
And fix our roads and bridges. We could have repaved the whole country with the money lost since 1990 on no win wars.
I do know that back channels are open between Russia and US/NATO which is a good thing. The risk here the way I see it is that Putin maybe stupid enough to use a tactical nuke in some form and think there will be no response....not just from NATO but the entire globe. Outside of using their Big Nukes and engaging in Mutually Assured Destruction....the cost of Russia going nuclear far outweighs the benefits. It wouldn't be just NATO responding...there would be an international outcry and condemnation which would result in immense pressure put on China and India to respond. The first target from the analyst I read would be taking out the Russian fleet in the Black Sea with conventional weapons...and probably a massive response in conventional weapons. For Russia it wouldn't change the battlefield...it would just make it worse...Ukraine would be receiving the most advanced weapons that the west has held back on so far. I think if there were an actual advantage to using unconventional weapons for Russia...Putin would already be deploying them....there is no moral struggle here.
We have Putin's Russia on it's heels and ALL of the world leaders know this. According to a Yougov Poll only 20% of Americans think we are doing too much for Ukraine...and it is a strange intersection between the far paleoconservative right and the Noam Chomsky far left. That's up from 13% back in May. Putin has proved himself to be a menace to the security of the global community and spare me the but but The US...Putin has thumbed his nose at international laws and committed atrocities and war crimes on a level not seen since WW2. Back in 1945 the world made an agreement "Never Again" well that is applicable here.
Lot of text here. Putin on his heels dying of cancer Ukraine entering Moscow at any moment. Russia going to drop the bomb any moment now. This ain't 1959 and Putin ain't the nut. The country attempting to control the world's energy by destroying their own allies is the problem.
I do know that back channels are open between Russia and US/NATO which is a good thing. The risk here the way I see it is that Putin maybe stupid enough to use a tactical nuke in some form and think there will be no response....not just from NATO but the entire globe. Outside of using their Big Nukes and engaging in Mutually Assured Destruction....the cost of Russia going nuclear far outweighs the benefits. It wouldn't be just NATO responding...there would be an international outcry and condemnation which would result in immense pressure put on China and India to respond. The first target from the analyst I read would be taking out the Russian fleet in the Black Sea with conventional weapons...and probably a massive response in conventional weapons. For Russia it wouldn't change the battlefield...it would just make it worse...Ukraine would be receiving the most advanced weapons that the west has held back on so far. I think if there were an actual advantage to using unconventional weapons for Russia...Putin would already be deploying them....there is no moral struggle here.
We have Putin's Russia on it's heels and ALL of the world leaders know this. According to a Yougov Poll only 20% of Americans think we are doing too much for Ukraine...and it is a strange intersection between the far paleoconservative right and the Noam Chomsky far left. That's up from 13% back in May. Putin has proved himself to be a menace to the security of the global community and spare me the but but The US...Putin has thumbed his nose at international laws and committed atrocities and war crimes on a level not seen since WW2. Back in 1945 the world made an agreement "Never Again" well that is applicable here.
same back channels told putin last spring that if he STOPPED at donbass it would be no blood, no foul.
As I said before, right now the back channels are outlining what targets he may hit.
the admin has ALWAYS planned for UKR to be carved up. nothing has changed, except much of europe has defied the current admin. There is a reason we are not on full speaking terms with the UK, germany and France at the moment.
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