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Old 10-04-2022, 09:17 AM
 
408 posts, read 289,282 times
Reputation: 306

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Imaging having a Native American lineage and your people lived off the land for over 10,000 years and then after 9,500 years , a population came from other side of the pond and you even welcomed them , you were kind to them but then shiploads came in with enforcements and introduced European diseases that the people of Americas had no immunity to , and also brought animals and crops that destroyed the local habitat

Then in the name of religion, these new colonists deforested all of the lush bio diverse land and built railroads and forced artificial farm agriculture with forced chemicals for manipulative excess food supply chains and caging and grooming of animals that previously ran free and were only hunted for necessary food consumption not for pleasure nor for sport.

Then these new colonists borrowed what was shared for the tribe for over 9,000 years and for a note of paper said “now you can’t use it ever ever again we bought it … sometimes more often they just stole it

Mass loads of natives died of small pox and they didn’t suffer alone , brought into the new world were African slaves on ropes and treated like animals and beat….

Then came millions upon millions of miles of cement roads and monotonous highways on what used to be unique sacred bio diverse natural habitat land , 7-lane cement and massive Walmart parking lots because they don’t feel like parallel parking … and massive empty space because suburban zoners don’t like the look of building up to conserve natural space but every family must have a one-story singular family home with a hard and a backyard smoker to cook animals that were slaughtered on farms where those animals used to roam free in America’s native woodlands

It’s so sad

And then the last straw.. due to the people who stole the land . The new Americans , all of us, who overconsumption everything and litter with billions of tons of plastic and city dumps and super fund sites, and waste all trees for paper , we deplete our resources so Federal Govt stipulates regulatory laws you can’t hunt here you can’t fish here you can’t live how you lived for 9500 years preserving the land perfectly fine ….

Who are we to tell these natives they can’t do what they did for 9500 years because of OUR overconsumption, why do we then mock that they have casinos when we forced that situation on them which we now are revoking by having states build MGM casinos ?

Why don’t we acknowledge what American ancestors did to native people the way Germany acknowledges their WW2 dark period and provides restitution and education to fix it? I feel guilty

 
Old 10-04-2022, 09:24 AM
 
Location: A Nation Possessed
25,482 posts, read 18,612,470 times
Reputation: 22375
Ah yes... the "western hemisphere was a veritable Utopia before whitey got here" fairytale.

Now go out and buy some history books that give you the REAL historical, anthropological, and archeological story of the Pre-Colombian Americas.




But to answer your question, I wouldn't mind at all if Native Americans were not held to the repressive environmental laws that the rest of us are. At least someone would have some freedom. And it's supposedly their land anyway.

Oh, and you go right ahead and feel guilty all you want. Sounds as if you are another casualty of leftist indoctrination. Only a fool would feel guilty for something he or she didn't do.
 
Old 10-04-2022, 09:25 AM
 
10,240 posts, read 6,782,402 times
Reputation: 11342
I think you need to reread history...
 
Old 10-04-2022, 09:26 AM
 
20,421 posts, read 12,338,684 times
Reputation: 10207
yea because being a stone aged man living in a hut and existing at the mercy of nature and being constantly on the lookout for other native people like you.... because they may very well kill you is way better.


Also did you know that many of the tribes had names for themselves that was something akin to "The People" and they had names for the other tribes around them that was something like "Not The People"?


did you know that? did you know that many, if not most Native tribes first lesson to their newborn babies was to teach them not to cry? you know why? because crying was a noise that would bring "other" and "other" means war and dead people.

they literally would bite a baby's hand if it cried to teach it not to ever cry.

did you know the Aztec's wonderful religious observance was to cut open the chest of a captured person EVERY DAY and pull their still beating heart from their chest to make sure the sun came up? did you know that?

gimme roads and Walmart. I feel guilty that we have let idiots in schools teach people crazy stuff that makes them feel guilty about roads and Walmart's.
 
Old 10-04-2022, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Upstate
9,453 posts, read 9,742,916 times
Reputation: 8816
Well, there is only one "lives" that matter in the US and it ain't them.

At least that is what we have been told....and if you say otherwise, you'll be destroyed.
 
Old 10-04-2022, 09:38 AM
 
10,240 posts, read 6,782,402 times
Reputation: 11342
We should start by calling them Indians again instead of "Native American" which is a term that started in the 1990's. The term "Indian" in reference to people of Americas meaning "Gente di dios" "people of God" came hundreds of years before they called Indians from India. People used to call Indians from India, Hindu's, and India never existed as a country until 1948.
 
Old 10-04-2022, 09:47 AM
 
13,564 posts, read 4,871,962 times
Reputation: 9600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freesponge View Post
Imaging having a Native American lineage and your people lived off the land for over 10,000 years and then after 9,500 years , a population came from other side of the pond and you even welcomed them , you were kind to them but then shiploads came in with enforcements and introduced European diseases that the people of Americas had no immunity to , and also brought animals and crops that destroyed the local habitat

Then in the name of religion, these new colonists deforested all of the lush bio diverse land and built railroads and forced artificial farm agriculture with forced chemicals for manipulative excess food supply chains and caging and grooming of animals that previously ran free and were only hunted for necessary food consumption not for pleasure nor for sport.

Then these new colonists borrowed what was shared for the tribe for over 9,000 years and for a note of paper said “now you can’t use it ever ever again we bought it … sometimes more often they just stole it

Mass loads of natives died of small pox and they didn’t suffer alone , brought into the new world were African slaves on ropes and treated like animals and beat….

Then came millions upon millions of miles of cement roads and monotonous highways on what used to be unique sacred bio diverse natural habitat land , 7-lane cement and massive Walmart parking lots because they don’t feel like parallel parking … and massive empty space because suburban zoners don’t like the look of building up to conserve natural space but every family must have a one-story singular family home with a hard and a backyard smoker to cook animals that were slaughtered on farms where those animals used to roam free in America’s native woodlands

It’s so sad

And then the last straw.. due to the people who stole the land . The new Americans , all of us, who overconsumption everything and litter with billions of tons of plastic and city dumps and super fund sites, and waste all trees for paper , we deplete our resources so Federal Govt stipulates regulatory laws you can’t hunt here you can’t fish here you can’t live how you lived for 9500 years preserving the land perfectly fine ….

Who are we to tell these natives they can’t do what they did for 9500 years because of OUR overconsumption, why do we then mock that they have casinos when we forced that situation on them which we now are revoking by having states build MGM casinos ?

Why don’t we acknowledge what American ancestors did to native people the way Germany acknowledges their WW2 dark period and provides restitution and education to fix it? I feel guilty
You are right about one thing - the history of white settlers' treatment of the American Indian is a sad and shameful history. On a par with the enslavement of black Africans, but not as recognized.

Many tribes do get special disposition from conservation laws on the reservations. I know that in Minnesota and Wisconsin, Indian rights to harvest walleye has been a point of controversy for years.
 
Old 10-04-2022, 09:50 AM
 
5,873 posts, read 2,707,920 times
Reputation: 3365
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyHobkins View Post
We should start by calling them Indians again instead of "Native American" which is a term that started in the 1990's. The term "Indian" in reference to people of Americas meaning "Gente di dios" "people of God" came hundreds of years before they called Indians from India. People used to call Indians from India, Hindu's, and India never existed as a country until 1948.
I looked at a map from the 1800s and the landmass that we currently refer to as India, was labeled as "Hindoostan".

Quote:
Other toponyms for the subcontinent include Jambudvīpa and Bharata Khanda. Since partition of India in 1947, although limitedly, Hindustan continues to be used to the present day as a historic name for the Republic of India.
Quote:
Etymology
Hindustan is derived from the Persian word Hindū cognate with the Sanskrit Sindhu.[10] The Proto-Iranian sound change *s > h occurred between 850 and 600 BCE, according to Asko Parpola.[11] Hence, the Rigvedic sapta sindhava (the land of seven rivers) became hapta hindu in the Avesta. It was said to be the "fifteenth domain" created by Ahura Mazda, apparently a land of 'abnormal heat'.[12] In 515 BCE, Darius I annexed the Indus Valley including Sindhu, the present day Sindh, which was called Hindu in Persian.[13] During the time of Xerxes, the term "Hindu" was also applied to the lands to the east of Indus.[10]

In middle Persian, probably from the first century CE, the suffix -stān was added, indicative of a country or region, forming the present word Hindūstān.[14] Thus, Sindh was referred to as Hindūstān in the Naqsh-e-Rustam inscription of Shapur I in c. 262 CE.[15][16]

Historian B. N. Mukherjee states that from the lower Indus basin, the term Hindūstān got gradually extended to "more or less the whole of the subcontinent". The Greco-Roman name "India" and the Chinese name Shen-tu also followed a similar evolution.[15][17]

The Arabic term Hind, derived from Persian Hindu, was previously used by the Arabs to refer to the much wider Indianised region from the Makran coast to the Indonesian archipelago.[18] But eventually it too became identified with the Indian subcontinent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindustan
 
Old 10-04-2022, 09:53 AM
 
408 posts, read 289,282 times
Reputation: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotkarl View Post
I often get mad when I am told I am not allowed to utilize my old house.
I’ll go there, use the shower, maybe make a sandwich, watch some tv, and next thing you know Cops show up and Im in cuffs. It’s just not right.
But at least when you sell your home there’s price competition. The first sales of Indian lands I guess the only recourse potentially they could have had was if say the New York Indians could have Dutch compete against the English on bids for land without them colluding on a low bid but did they even have an attorney to approve the contract language to stuff like

We will sell these parcels of land, but the trees will not change possession , or these species must remain our property, and probably if they had a true loyal attorney representing the Indians they would give consulting advice you probably do not want to offer a sale, but rather a lease term or a timeshare with black out dates for harvest periods where you need these lands for traditional duties

Bigger problem than this though …. Before 1776 there wasn’t even a basis for contract law enforcement… no uniform commercial code didn’t exist , common contract law of England didn’t apply to Dutch

There was one source of enforcement of contract law and it was that if 2 sides can’t agree to a negotiation then one side will have no incentive not to declare war against the other party. If 2 sides have a mutual respect for contract precedents then they could reach agreements that afford both sides more gains than those obtained through a war against each other.

Primitively this is how tribes and nations become recognized to begin with. They reach a point of mutual recognition and determine those mutual recognitions of land division lead to a better outcome for each than violating the rights of the other to obtain more land. This then develops into larger alliances where 2 or more parties agree to combine armies of any other party takes from one of them, and this increases the opportunity value of reaching a trade without opting for war.

Last edited by Freesponge; 10-04-2022 at 10:06 AM..
 
Old 10-04-2022, 09:55 AM
Status: "I must be “really retarded”" (set 9 days ago)
 
19,994 posts, read 20,683,019 times
Reputation: 16588
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freesponge View Post
But at least when you sell your home there’s price competition. The first sales of Indian lands I guess the only recourse potentially they could have had was if say the New York Indians could have Dutch compete against the English on bids for land without them colluding on a low bid but did they even have an attorney to approve the contract language to stuff like

We will sell these parcels of land, but the trees will not change possession , or these species must remain our property
Natives definitely should’ve had better lawyers.
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