The new political spectrum (Obama, ideologies, abortion, high school)
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The spectrum, be it line, circle, sphere, or n-dimensional theoretical space...applies to statists. People who believe that regardless of how some other assumes power, it is perfectly right and just that some should hold involuntary over others. They believe some are Masters and all others are slaves, and that is the proper order of things, as apparently it is the only way to have things like roads and teachers.
It's this endless quibble over how much slavery is good, what things Master should say while they have us under the lash, how much tithing do we owe Master when we create value or trade amongst ourselves, how nice is the food/clothing/shelter Master provides to their slaves and finally, do we get to be house slaves or field slaves. It is literally plantation arguments about life as a slave on a plantation.
That spectrum of comparing who has the more comfortable shackles is infinite. And not just a bit funny, given how righteous every single slave seems to be when advocating for their brand of slavery on their plantation.
From a binary sense, there is only one opposing side...those who oppose the concept of being slaves. Non-statists. Those who think the concept of involuntary government is absurd on its face. No spectrum, just one simple idea...that nobody can, does or should hold involuntary power over anyone else. Those folks aren't on a spectrum, they occupy a single point in space.
I would define the sides differently: globalist vs. localist, or big government vs. little government
Localist meaning people who want decisions made at the lowest (local) level possible.
Who is more nationalist: the ones saying they want a national abortion policy decided by the Supreme Court or the ones saying they want the voters in each state to decide?...the ones saying they want a national department of education or the ones saying they want the parents in the local school district to decide?... the ones who want national mandates on auto fuel economy, pipeline construction, alternative energy tax rebates, or the ones who want private individuals and businesses to make their own decisions?
The so-called nationalism of Donald Trump and the MAGAs is really not nationalism, it's localism. They are saying we are the united states of America, not we are The United States of America. They wave the flag not of one star and one stripe, but 13 stripes and 50 stars.
I too believe it is more about globalism/ nationalism now. There's overlap of course, but at it's deep root, you have people that want a one world government, lots of big corporations and governments working hand in hand. It's all over the WEF website using terms like stakeholder capitalism, ie non-government groups trying to push leftist ideologies into the boardroom.
ESG is another example of that sort of thinking that also goes on in the minds of the lefty globalism crowd.
The nationalist are more focused on god, country, and family, loosely speaking and other things of course, but that's a down and dirty quick and easy way to see it.
Now ? I think it started back in 2008. That globalist/nationalist division is what got Trump elected.
I would define the sides differently: globalist vs. localist, or big government vs. little government
Globalist - the plantation should be vast and Masters from other plantations should not only profit from our labor, but they should be allowed to put us under their lash if they feel like it.
Localist - keep the plantation small, because I only want my local Master beating me.
Big government - I get beat more and keep less of anything I earn, but Master gives me nicer food/clothing/shelter.
Small government - I get beat less, keep slightly more of anything I earn, but Master is stingier on food/clothing/shelter
Slave making slave distinctions about life on the plantation.
This all really boils down to you defining "flexible" as agreeing with you .
I'm not referring to two politicians.. I specified that in my post. I said it's a managerial class. And I mean that literally, an entire class of people.
Citing Trump and an. ad hominem attack. I don't get it.. I thought this thread was about the political views of rank-and-file college graduates. And honestly I don't ever remember interacting with you on City Data, how do have so many (negative) insights in to what I really mean. I meant what i posted.. four years of political indoctrination in universities, turns out the most inflexible political partisans. (peace)
Hey Good4Nothin, I have to disagree with you since you are good for something.
Your post is one of the better posts I’ve seen in a while and all your points make perfect sense.
I’ve always been Center, but leaned slightly to the Right. I still believe in several Left leaning causes, but now, I classify myself as a MAGA. Also, I’m mixed Black and White, with a pinch of Jewish blood and my kids are also mixed with Hispanic and Asian AND I am a proud Catholic, so I would make one hell of a “pizz†poor White Nationalist, Nazi or KKK idiot.
Btw, I’m pretty sure that Biden or whoever is really in charge doesn’t know that by trying to demonize MAGAs, it only confirms they are right and strengthens one’s commitment to the principles of MAGA. Also, when “Der Fuehrer†was giving his Nuremberg speech, all it did was push millions of Americans into the MAGA camp.
Extreme globalism would mean the elitist technocrats had completely taken power. They would control world finances and military resources. So there would be no way to oppose them or to escape (unless you find a way to get to and live on Mars).
Nationalism is needed to balance globalist tendencies. That means the world will never agree on everything, and there will always be wars. But that's better than a one world totalitarian government.
The globalists are making headway thanks to the pandemic, and climate fears. Many progressives will agree that world governance is needed to control future pandemics, and to control use of fossil fuels.
Freedom lovers should admit that each of us doing whatever we please is going to have a bad outcome for the environment. But we also can't hand over control to the globalists.
It seems like a dilemma to me.
I think you have a dilemma if you trying to think about this in black/white discrete terms, you are not wrong insofar that a global civilization requires global coordination, our economic systems made it so that we are globalized. Our problem is that every civilization we ever had as humans have collapsed, it just didnt affect the whole world. New problems new solutions, clearly most people understand the dystopic nature of a world gov, it would have to be like something we never had before, people are trying out new forms of direct digital goverment that allows to be decentralized but still gives you the overarching coordination, public-private partnerships, we have to figure out new economic systems that address our current landscape, need to this without resorting to utopianism or holding on to old solutions.
Globalist - the plantation should be vast and Masters from other plantations should not only profit from our labor, but they should be allowed to put us under their lash if they feel like it.
Localist - keep the plantation small, because I only want my local Master beating me.
Big government - I get beat more and keep less of anything I earn, but Master gives me nicer food/clothing/shelter.
Small government - I get beat less, keep slightly more of anything I earn, but Master is stingier on food/clothing/shelter
Slave making slave distinctions about life on the plantation.
Would you rather be a slave on a small or large plantation? I would choose small.
Are you suggesting we get rid of government altogether? Are you an anarchist?
(Sorry, not sure whether you are agreeing or disagreeing.)
You're right about libertarians, but there are a lot of conservatives who are hypocrites and don't fit into that because they want to control what a woman does with her womb.
No, they want to control how an unborn person is treated. Most conservatives are willing to accept abortion up until 12 or 15 weeks but that's never good enough for the left. They will only accept abortion up until birth and no matter how you slice it, that is cruel and inhumane for the unborn person.
Would you rather be a slave on a small or large plantation? I would choose small.
I would rather not be a slave at all, tyvm. The size of the plantation doesn't change the nature of the Master-slave relationship, and it is that relationship I want exactly nothing to do with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit
Are you suggesting we get rid of government altogether? Are you an anarchist?
Given that I have not just suggested it, but plainly advocated for it countless times - yes, as a non-statist I would like to see the elimination of the state in its entirety.
Yes, I am an anarchist. I use the term non-statist because so few people actually understand what actual anarchism means - which is the belief in the rule of nobody. Nobody holds involuntary, forced, coercive power over anyone else. Nobody holds a higher claim on an individual's life, liberty and property than the individual themselves.
Thus, the bottom line is this - you either believe it is right and proper that someone else should hold/possess involuntary power over you, and that said person/people rightly and properly hold a higher claim on your life, liberty and property than you do...OR YOU DON'T. If you are in the former group, well that is statism, and there are infinite minute variations in how that involuntary power over you is wielded, how coercive it can be, what benefits you gain from your quasi-enslavement, etc. It is endless quibbling over points of minutia. Every last one of these "spectrum" discussions sounds like two battered wives arguing whose marriage to a psychotic wife beater is best.
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