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Old 10-05-2022, 10:00 AM
 
Location: San Diego
18,739 posts, read 7,610,204 times
Reputation: 15007

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottomobeale View Post
Amendment that most CITIZENS would agree on.
1) Congress has the right to regulate the amount of money spent in elections. Said limits must not hinder one side vs the other.
2) Money is not speech. it is the amplification of speech.
3) Term limits
4) Paid lobbying ban. Groups shall have no more access to congress than the average constituent.
5) Standing. To affect an election, you must be part of that area. FL shall only affect FL etc.
6) Voter ID. Said ID shall be FREE OF CHARGE.
7) Ballot harvesting by non family/ non costodial banned. IE you can carry your cancer ridden grandmas ballot for her.

There are a whole host of others, but I believe this list would get large majorities across the political spectrum.
One out of seven - bravo for point (6).

The rest is restriction by government of speech, freedom of assembly, even freedom to vote for the candidate of your choice etc.

Where do you get the impression that "most citizens would agree on" this half-thought-through list? From brainless denizens of social media?

Anyone who proposes to solve the problems of government by adding MORE government, is on the wrong track. Every time.

 
Old 10-05-2022, 10:04 AM
 
21,933 posts, read 9,503,108 times
Reputation: 19461
Quote:
Originally Posted by lepoisson View Post
We don't have a lot of low level corruption in the US (like you pay off a cop to get out of a ticket) but we do have a lot of high level corruption. Politicians almost never do the right thing anymore because it's the best thing for constituents. Instead, they do whatever is best for the folks who donate to them.

For example, they could easily fix the spam call issue that we all deal with, but I'm guessing AT&T and other telecom companies wouldn't like that very much because it would hurt their bottom line.

It used to be that if you wrote a letter to your elected officials, you would get a nice hand signed letter back. Nowadays, you get some boilerplate letter mailed by an intern with them telling you how you're wrong. And that's if you get a letter at all.

How do we solve the issue of politicians answering more to people who pay them rather than the people who elect them?
You lost any credibility here. Of course we do.
 
Old 10-05-2022, 10:04 AM
 
Location: San Diego
18,739 posts, read 7,610,204 times
Reputation: 15007
Quote:
Originally Posted by lepoisson View Post
We don't have a lot of low level corruption in the US (like you pay off a cop to get out of a ticket) but we do have a lot of high level corruption. Politicians almost never do the right thing anymore because it's the best thing for constituents. Instead, they do whatever is best for the folks who donate to them.

For example, they could easily fix the spam call issue that we all deal with, but I'm guessing AT&T and other telecom companies wouldn't like that very much because it would hurt their bottom line.

It used to be that if you wrote a letter to your elected officials, you would get a nice hand signed letter back. Nowadays, you get some boilerplate letter mailed by an intern with them telling you how you're wrong. And that's if you get a letter at all.

How do we solve the issue of politicians answering more to people who pay them rather than the people who elect them?
Take away a lot of their power, so they have less influence they can sell to the highest bidder.

It's one of the reasons, maybe the main one, that conservatives push for smaller government with less power. And why the people who founded this country, were so interested in limiting the power of any central government.

This isn't a new problem. One of the oldest sayings in the book:

"When politicians control the buying and selling, the first thing bought and sold are politicians."

And seldom is a saying more true.
 
Old 10-05-2022, 11:07 AM
 
Location: The High Desert
16,086 posts, read 10,747,693 times
Reputation: 31493
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
You get to vote. That is how you solve it. That is the only way you can solve it.
That is often where the problem lies. Voter apathy. I would almost favor mandatory voting or a tax credit for voting. But the electorate needs to be informed, not mislead. Voter apathy and abdication of civic responsibility is why we hear people praising term limits. Voters are too lazy to vote.

We are in the middle of an election campaign season and the candidates do not inspire confidence or make someone feel that they are voting "for" someone. It is often a race between two losers. The campaign ads are ridiculous and inspire voters to stay home.

Financial corruption is the natural outcome of such a situation.
 
Old 10-05-2022, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Philaburbia
41,959 posts, read 75,192,887 times
Reputation: 66918
Quote:
Originally Posted by lepoisson View Post
We don't have a lot of low level corruption in the US
Wait ... what?
 
Old 10-05-2022, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Chicago
6,160 posts, read 5,712,713 times
Reputation: 6193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grlzrl View Post
You lost any credibility here. Of course we do.

I really can't think of any low level corruption that affects me on a daily basis in the US.

Have you ever been to a place like Nigeria? Bribery and corruption is a normal part of life there. I was in a taxi and went through a police checkpoint and the officers asked "do you have a small gift for me?". They wanted a bribe just because we were driving through the road they were patrolling.

A buddy of mine was renting a car in Cancun and even the legit Avis employees were trying to scam him to sign up for a bunch of things that weren't required and they were insisting they were required.

One time I was in Ukraine and was flying from Kyiv to Berlin and my carry-on bag was slightly overweight and they said I would have to check it and pay $75 since it's last minute. I asked the gate agent if there was anything I could do to help the situation and pulled out some cash. Amazingly the carry-on bag that was overweight was no longer a problem. If I had done this in the US, the gate agent would have made me check the bag anyways and possibly prevented be from boarding for trying to bribe.

This low level corruption exists in developing countries because wages are low so people have to find other ways of making money. And of course management are also involved in the corruption and do nothing to stop it.
 
Old 10-05-2022, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Chicago
6,160 posts, read 5,712,713 times
Reputation: 6193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
Take away a lot of their power, so they have less influence they can sell to the highest bidder.

It's one of the reasons, maybe the main one, that conservatives push for smaller government with less power. And why the people who founded this country, were so interested in limiting the power of any central government.

This isn't a new problem. One of the oldest sayings in the book:

"When politicians control the buying and selling, the first thing bought and sold are politicians."

And seldom is a saying more true.

Unfortunately I think modern day conservatives are pro-government control depending on what the issue is. I don't see to many conservative states legalizing marijuana, loosening alcohol laws, or not trying to ban abortion. Just my opinion, but the most free states are places like Vermont, New Hampshire, and Montana. Those states lean more libertarian than anything.
 
Old 10-05-2022, 03:49 PM
 
4,851 posts, read 3,276,133 times
Reputation: 9471
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
You get to vote. That is how you solve it. That is the only way you can solve it.
Sadly, in the rare occasion an incumbent does get voted out, the newbie all too often falls right in line.

Serving in Congress should be a duty, like jury duty. Pull normal people away from their lives and jobs, lock them in a hotel, and give them $12 a day and a box lunch until they do what they're sent up there to do. We may not like what 'regular' folk come up with, but you can rest assured they'd come up with something.

The system as designed may be the best in the world... but for all practical purposes, it's broken.
 
Old 10-05-2022, 05:15 PM
 
25,445 posts, read 9,805,591 times
Reputation: 15337
You can't separate financial corruption from politics.
 
Old 10-05-2022, 06:27 PM
 
4,563 posts, read 4,101,921 times
Reputation: 2285
Quote:
Originally Posted by lepoisson View Post
We don't have a lot of low level corruption in the US (like you pay off a cop to get out of a ticket) but we do have a lot of high level corruption. Politicians almost never do the right thing anymore because it's the best thing for constituents. Instead, they do whatever is best for the folks who donate to them.

For example, they could easily fix the spam call issue that we all deal with, but I'm guessing AT&T and other telecom companies wouldn't like that very much because it would hurt their bottom line.

It used to be that if you wrote a letter to your elected officials, you would get a nice hand signed letter back. Nowadays, you get some boilerplate letter mailed by an intern with them telling you how you're wrong. And that's if you get a letter at all.

How do we solve the issue of politicians answering more to people who pay them rather than the people who elect them?
Replace SCOTUS with judges who don’t believe money is speech and corporations are people.

If you don’t do that then any other efforts will be ruled unconstitutional and therefor will be useless.
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