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Old 10-13-2022, 09:51 AM
 
36,529 posts, read 30,863,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ansible90 View Post
Where does this law talk about "gender affirming care?"

Sterilization does nor require removal of uterus or "lopping off" a male sexual organ or castration.

How does this proposed law relate to transgender care? I didn't see anything in your post about that.
It dosent.
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Old 10-13-2022, 10:13 AM
 
Location: The Piedmont of North Carolina
6,025 posts, read 2,846,987 times
Reputation: 7644
Quote:
Originally Posted by ansible90 View Post
Where does this law talk about "gender affirming care?"

Sterilization does nor require removal of uterus or "lopping off" a male sexual organ or castration.

How does this proposed law relate to transgender care? I didn't see anything in your post about that.
The law does not specifically mention "gender affirming care", however, the language used around 'sterilization' is vague, and can be interpreted as "gender affirming care". Later, in the article:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Federalist
By its express terms, Prop 3 applies to “every individual” and guarantees an “individual’s right.” The proposed constitutional amendment further provides that “the state shall not discriminate in the protection or enforcement of this fundamental right.”

This proposal represents a huge demarcation from controlling Michigan law, under which minors must have parental consent to obtain medical treatment or receive prescription medications, with the only current exception being the judicial bypass provisions governing minors seeking abortions.

In the context of abortion, Prop 3 guts Michigan’s requirements for either parental consent or a judicial bypass, first by declaring that the amendment applies to all “individuals” and second by expressly providing that “the state shall not discriminate in the protection or enforcement of this fundamental right.”

Prop 3’s grant of such “autonomous decision-making” is not limited to abortion, however. Rather, the plain language of the proposed constitutional amendment provides that the right to “reproductive freedom,” “entails the right to make and effectuate decisions about all matters relating to pregnancy, including but not limited to … sterilization … or infertility care.”

Under Michigan law currently, minors cannot be chemically or surgically sterilized (or rendered infertile) without their parents’ consent, and even then most physicians would refuse to sterilize a minor — except in the case of transgender-identifying patients.

The modern medical community has embraced the transgender ideology that teaches that human beings can be born “in the wrong body,” and that the appropriate treatment for such individuals consists of making their bodies appear to conform to their “internal sense” of gender.

The first step in such wrongly named “gender-affirming” medical response consists of prescribing puberty blockers to children. Puberty blockers, at a minimum, render children temporarily infertile by preventing them from maturing sexually, and a longer-term use renders them sterile. The surgical procedures used under the guise of “gender confirmation” — castration, hysterectomy, and the removal of ovaries — likewise sterilize the patients.
While protecting the right to an abortion, this amendment also protects, people of any age, receiving chemical or surgical sterilization.
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Old 10-13-2022, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Long Island
57,286 posts, read 26,206,502 times
Reputation: 15644
Quote:
Originally Posted by FordBronco1967 View Post
The law does not specifically mention "gender affirming care", however, the language used around 'sterilization' is vague, and can be interpreted as "gender affirming care". Later, in the article:



While protecting the right to an abortion, this amendment also protects, people of any age, receiving chemical or surgical sterilization.
That is quite the stretch. The title of this thread is a lie, the main focus of this ballot is reproductive rights. Sounds like someone is attempting to kill the proposal with conspiracies. No mention of age by the way.

Quote:
Michigan Proposal 3, the Right to Reproductive Freedom Initiative, is on the ballot in Michigan as an initiated constitutional amendment on November 8, 2022.

A "yes" vote would support providing a state constitutional right to reproductive freedom, which is defined as "the right to make and effectuate decisions about all matters relating to pregnancy, including but not limited to prenatal care, childbirth, postpartum care, contraception, sterilization, abortion care, miscarriage management, and infertility care."

A "no" vote would oppose providing a state constitutional right to reproductive freedom.

https://ballotpedia.org/Michigan_Pro...itiative_(2022)
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Old 10-13-2022, 10:19 AM
 
Location: The Piedmont of North Carolina
6,025 posts, read 2,846,987 times
Reputation: 7644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo58 View Post
That's quite a stretch. We all know that "sterilization" means vasectomy for men or having tubes tied for a woman. No one considers castration a form of birth control.

As far as parental consent for abortion, no less sex change, existing laws would stay on the books unless challenged in court.

"Law experts who spoke to Bridge say they believe the parental consent law would withstand a legal challenge even if voters adopt Proposal 3.

Richards of the University of Detroit Mercy said defenders could easily prove the state has a compelling interest to ensure “that minors are consulting with their parents before undergoing a pretty serious decision.”

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-go...ortions-minors

So its really a scare tactic to claim these far out scenarios where little kids march into a clinic and demand a sex change operation.
Is it a scare tactic, if it cannot be confirmed that the parental consent law would withstand a legal challenge?

The amendment states,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michigan's Third Proposition
(1)Every individual has a fundamental right to reproductive freedom, which entails the right to make and effectuate decisions about all matters relating to pregnancy, including but not limited to prenatal care, childbirth, postpartum care, contraception, sterilization, abortion care, miscarriage management, and infertility care. An individual’s right to reproductive freedom shall not be denied, burdened, nor infringed upon unless justified by a compelling state interest achieved by the least restrictive means.

(2) The state shall not discriminate in the protection or enforcement of this fundamental right.

(4) For the purposes of this section:

A state interest is “compelling” only if it is for the limited purpose of protecting the health of an individual seeking care, consistent with accepted clinical standards of practice and evidence-based medicine, and does not infringe on that individual’s autonomous decision-making.
The term 'individual' is vague. It should have been written, "Every legal adult", as "legal adult" is quite clear who the intended audience is.
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Old 10-13-2022, 10:21 AM
 
Location: The Piedmont of North Carolina
6,025 posts, read 2,846,987 times
Reputation: 7644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
That is quite the stretch. The title of this thread is a lie, the main focus of this ballot is reproductive rights. Sounds like someone is attempting to kill the proposal with conspiracies.
But not the only focus. Why was the word 'sterilization' even included, in an amendment where the main focus is about abortion?

Using legal definitions is not a "conspiracy theory".
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Old 10-13-2022, 10:28 AM
 
17,440 posts, read 9,268,656 times
Reputation: 11907
Quote:
Originally Posted by FordBronco1967 View Post
https://thefederalist.com/2022/10/12...ion-amendment/

I foresee some attacking the source, rather than argue the merit of their argument, which is based on the text of the amendment, as written and being voted on.

From the article:

I cannot post the entire article, but it clearly states how this amendment does much more than "restore Roe V Wade protections". This is just another extension of the Democratic Party's belief that children belong to the state, not the parent...
In the last decade, Planned Parenthood has been in the VERY lucrative Transgender business.
I posted about this a few days ago but any Google search of planned Parenthood & Transgender will give a lot of information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
That's the question, isn't it. In a short few years, transgenderism has become the number 1 issue in politics.

Why? Why was basketball the starting ground for bathroom discussions? Were the <1% of the country all the most vocal of all basketball fans demanding use of bathrooms? Does that make any logical or rational sense?


One reason — it’s BIG MONEY for Leftists Organizations, which means BIG MONEY for Leftist Politicians.


Who is really behind this programming?
Planned Parenthood and Activist LGBT groups.
These Leftist Bills always have Poisin Pills involved — I guess the point is to push things they know won’t pass so they can have issues to run on. They certainly don’t care about issues like rampant inflation that is hurting everyone.
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Old 10-13-2022, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Retired in VT; previously MD & NJ
14,267 posts, read 6,956,122 times
Reputation: 17878
Quote:
Originally Posted by FordBronco1967 View Post
The law does not specifically mention "gender affirming care", however, the language used around 'sterilization' is vague, and can be interpreted as "gender affirming care". Later, in the article:



While protecting the right to an abortion, this amendment also protects, people of any age, receiving chemical or surgical sterilization.
sterilization … or infertility care does not include hysterectomies, castration or "lopping off" any body parts. That article is trying so hard to stretch the words of this law into something it is not.
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Old 10-13-2022, 10:50 AM
 
Location: The Piedmont of North Carolina
6,025 posts, read 2,846,987 times
Reputation: 7644
Quote:
Originally Posted by ansible90 View Post
sterilization … or infertility care does not include hysterectomies, castration or "lopping off" any body parts. That article is trying so hard to stretch the words of this law into something it is not.
There is physical and chemical sterilization. The amendment does not differentiate between the two, which means that it protects both for "every individual", which, itself, is vague.
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Old 10-13-2022, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Retired in VT; previously MD & NJ
14,267 posts, read 6,956,122 times
Reputation: 17878
Quote:
Originally Posted by FordBronco1967 View Post
But not the only focus. Why was the word 'sterilization' even included, in an amendment where the main focus is about abortion?

Using legal definitions is not a "conspiracy theory".
The focus of the law is reproductive rights. Sterilization is one of the reproductive rights. They are saying a wife does not have to have husband's permission to have tubes tied. Likewise a man does not need wife's permission for a vasectomy. A single woman doesn't need anyone's permission to have her tubes tied.

Very often a woman might have her tubes tied when she goes in for an abortion.

Again, sterilization does not require hysterectomy, castration or removal of any body parts.
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Old 10-13-2022, 10:51 AM
 
Location: The Piedmont of North Carolina
6,025 posts, read 2,846,987 times
Reputation: 7644
Quote:
Originally Posted by ansible90 View Post
The focus of the law is reproductive rights. Sterilization is one of the reproductive rights. They are saying a Wolfe does not have to have husband's permission ti have tubes tied. Likewise a man does not need wife's permission for a vasectomy.

Again, sterilization does not require hysterectomy, castration or removal of any body parts.
But, it can. That is the whole point!
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