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Old 11-02-2022, 09:17 PM
 
3,113 posts, read 933,755 times
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The mainstream media loves these stories. But truth is, more kids that age drown in a pool. Both are caused by (perhaps just temporarily) reckless parents.
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Old 11-02-2022, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
25,119 posts, read 16,146,620 times
Reputation: 14408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Leaving a gun out around children is even dumber than letting them choose their own sex.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uconn97 View Post
And gee, I wonder which one happens more often
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
Interesting.
let's make it clearer, apparently (though I'm surprised hooligan):

LEAVING A GUN OUT around children is EVEN WORSE

than letting an immature child convince you they're not what they are.

Even worse, dumber, stupid, A is a worse thing than B.
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Old 11-02-2022, 09:42 PM
 
14,941 posts, read 8,555,251 times
Reputation: 7360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburban_Guy View Post
So irresponsible and gives gun owners a bad name.

And e-begs on GoFundMe to the tune of over $20k currently. Absolutely shameless.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...sv1plustaskbar
Such a horrific tragedy. I suspect that nothing the law could impose on this father comes anywhere close to the pain and guilt he’s already dealing with.

People make mistakes. Everyone does. Sometimes those mistakes are big and have horrible consequences. I think it’s also a mistake to immediately condemn, rather than offer prayers to someone who has to be devastated and already suffering.

I can’t begin to imagine how that family is feeling. Does anyone really think there is some “punishment” required here, over and above the punishment of losing your child?

The mob mentality here is disturbing, when it is clear this was a terrible accident.

Last edited by GuyNTexas; 11-02-2022 at 09:52 PM..
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Old 11-02-2022, 09:55 PM
 
14,941 posts, read 8,555,251 times
Reputation: 7360
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal View Post
let's make it clearer, apparently (though I'm surprised hooligan):

LEAVING A GUN OUT around children is EVEN WORSE

than letting an immature child convince you they're not what they are.

Even worse, dumber, stupid, A is a worse thing than B.
You’re dead wrong. There is no comparing a horrible accident to a deliberate act.
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Old 11-02-2022, 10:27 PM
 
3,214 posts, read 1,382,165 times
Reputation: 3611
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
Such a horrific tragedy. I suspect that nothing the law could impose on this father comes anywhere close to the pain and guilt he’s already dealing with.

People make mistakes. Everyone does. Sometimes those mistakes are big and have horrible consequences. I think it’s also a mistake to immediately condemn, rather than offer prayers to someone who has to be devastated and already suffering.

I can’t begin to imagine how that family is feeling. Does anyone really think there is some “punishment” required here, over and above the punishment of losing your child?

The mob mentality here is disturbing, when it is clear this was a terrible accident.
Seems to me if one is going to have laws that allows access to firearms and allows. individuals the right to carry them in their vehicles, those individuals who choose to avail themselves of those rights have the responsibility to ensure the firearms are appropriately stored/locked/protected to prevent such access and tragedies. The fact that the father feels badly doesn’t mean his actions were prudent or safe. I don’t know what the law is, and I don’t know what care he took to ensure this could not happen, but I’d be fine with a law that holds gun owners responsible for deaths such as this if they didn’t take sufficient care to secure the gun appropriately. So, yeah, I think punishment might well be appropriate here depending on the specific circumstances.
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Old 11-02-2022, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Inland Levy County, FL
8,806 posts, read 6,092,783 times
Reputation: 2949
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVNomad View Post
Seems to me if one is going to have laws that allows access to firearms and allows. individuals the right to carry them in their vehicles, those individuals who choose to avail themselves of those rights have the responsibility to ensure the firearms are appropriately stored/locked/protected to prevent such access and tragedies. The fact that the father feels badly doesn’t mean his actions were prudent or safe. I don’t know what the law is, and I don’t know what care he took to ensure this could not happen, but I’d be fine with a law that holds gun owners responsible for deaths such as this if they didn’t take sufficient care to secure the gun appropriately. So, yeah, I think punishment might well be appropriate here depending on the specific circumstances.
Of course we all know that, but the point is that accidents happen and that’s why they’re called accidents. This was negligent but again, negligence is not the same as reckless. My face turns red when I realize I sent an email with a typo…can’t imagine how it would feel to know my child got ahold of something and severely injured or killed himself. I have a 2yo and it’s unfathomable.

Many people carry in their car legally and contrary to popular belief, there is no widespread law about keeping ammo separate, etc. (can’t speak for all states, just mine). I will not carry anywhere except on my person bc I would never want to forget or get lazy about where I leave it. Maybe a sibling left the truck door open when they got out - my kids have done it - and the toddler climbed in and found the gun in the glove box with one in the chamber. No way could he have racked it on his own, trigger pull would be hard enough.
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Old 11-02-2022, 10:41 PM
 
3,214 posts, read 1,382,165 times
Reputation: 3611
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
You’re dead wrong. There is no comparing a horrible accident to a deliberate act.
I’ve sat here for 10 minutes trying to articulate a response to the above. All I can really say is that given the circumstances, this might be among the most disturbing comments/opinions I have seen expressed on CD. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but to try and state the death of a person, an innocent child no less, is somehow not as bad as a mutually determined medical decision between a child/parent/their physician reflects a moral code I just don’t understand.
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Old 11-02-2022, 10:48 PM
 
3,214 posts, read 1,382,165 times
Reputation: 3611
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrea3821 View Post
Of course we all know that, but the point is that accidents happen and that’s why they’re called accidents. This was negligent but again, negligence is not the same as reckless. My face turns red when I realize I sent an email with a typo…can’t imagine how it would feel to know my child got ahold of something and severely injured or killed himself. I have a 2yo and it’s unfathomable.

Many people carry in their car legally and contrary to popular belief, there is no widespread law about keeping ammo separate, etc. (can’t speak for all states, just mine). I will not carry anywhere except on my person bc I would never want to forget or get lazy about where I leave it. Maybe a sibling left the truck door open when they got out - my kids have done it - and the toddler climbed in and found the gun in the glove box with one in the chamber. No way could he have racked it on his own, trigger pull would be hard enough.
As I said, I don’t know what the law is. I’m not suggesting a law was broken. I’m suggesting that I would be fine with a law that effectively makes gun owners criminally responsible for such negligence. Reasonable people can disagree what constitutes appropriate care for leaving a gun in a vehicle (maybe leaving a loaded gun in a vehicle should be a crime….I don’t know, just thinking out loud). I’d have no problem deferring to knowledgeable people (gun owners, firearms safety experts, lawyers, etc) to establish a reasonable level of care. My position is: (1) if you are going to be liberal with regard to gun ownership, we should be holding those individuals to the highest safety standards to prevent tragedies like this.pm and (2) I really don’t care how badly the gun owner feels about the accident with regard to determining their criminal responsibility for the situation.
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Old 11-03-2022, 03:18 AM
 
Location: Charlotte
3,853 posts, read 4,054,493 times
Reputation: 2372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
How did a 2 year old manage to pull the trigger? Must have been altered.
Not sure how a 2 year old could do that as well, maybe if it were a gun with a hair trigger perhaps. A Glock or a similar gun like that would be very difficult for a toddler to pull the trigger or even grip it to pull the trigger. Very sad all around.
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Old 11-03-2022, 04:48 AM
 
Location: Inland Levy County, FL
8,806 posts, read 6,092,783 times
Reputation: 2949
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVNomad View Post
As I said, I don’t know what the law is. I’m not suggesting a law was broken. I’m suggesting that I would be fine with a law that effectively makes gun owners criminally responsible for such negligence. Reasonable people can disagree what constitutes appropriate care for leaving a gun in a vehicle (maybe leaving a loaded gun in a vehicle should be a crime….I don’t know, just thinking out loud). I’d have no problem deferring to knowledgeable people (gun owners, firearms safety experts, lawyers, etc) to establish a reasonable level of care. My position is: (1) if you are going to be liberal with regard to gun ownership, we should be holding those individuals to the highest safety standards to prevent tragedies like this.pm and (2) I really don’t care how badly the gun owner feels about the accident with regard to determining their criminal responsibility for the situation.
That’s the thing. “Reasonable” is used so many times in common law and judicial decisions. And what two reasonable people believe might be different. I have kids so I wouldn’t leave stuff around but after they are gone, maybe I would. I am extremely cautious on this topic at my stage of life. Blanket laws don’t work well bc there are always going to be extenuating circumstances based on what is reasonable for any given person or situation. I don’t favor criminalizing negligence across the board.

You don’t think natural consequences are sufficient? It was an accident. If there was intent, that changes everything. If he was reckless (maybe he was, but I doubt it), that changes things. But do we need to be jailing people who make legit mistakes? Look at car accidents. People do sometimes go to jail if they are reckless and kill someone. They don’t if it’s an accident. We do have to distinguish the difference.
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