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I am not a fan of leftwing politics. I believe in limited government and American freedoms. However there is a chorus on here from MAGA's and others outside of CD that the left is so dangerous we will end up destroyed or a banana republic or full blown socialist if the left has their way.
However the left is in power in Europe. Scandinavia is very left wing. Canada is also. Yet they are not destroyed. I don't want us to be like them. With socialized health care, high taxes and less freedoms. But if the left did win here we would be more likely like Scandinavia not Venezuela. Norway or Canada has not dismantled capitalism and implemented Socialism. Why would it be any different here?
Does anyone on here really believe the rhetoric of someone like Mark Levin?
"America is being destroyed. If you want to destroy America, then you vote Democrat because the Democrat Party has been unmasked. Its policies and programs are delusional and destructive, and they are dismantling the most fabulous nation on earth right before your eyes," Levin told viewers.
Levin said the party has banded together in a concerted effort to destroy capitalism and implement a socialist economy.
So the US has only a 10% chance of ending up like Venezuela? No biggie then? I'd rather have a ZERO % chance of ending up like Venezuela.
So, in essence it is your contention that affordable healthcare universally available to all citizens, paid maternity and parental leave, mandated vacation weeks, cheaper advanced education tuitions, better unemployment benefits, cheaper rents are all signs of "bad socialism"?
Seems logical I guess.
Spending less money to achieve bother better results, and more fairly delivered services, is loathed by the American right (not conservative at all).
There's no such thing as "good" socialism. The term "bad" before socialism is redundant. Socialism is by definition bad.
But if considering what some on here consider or define as "socialism" being Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA for just looking at healthcare provisions, which of those have you accessed or expect to access that you consider as "bad".
Perhaps it's the definition of "Socialism" and what exactly you think constitutes "socialism" that is confusing you. It could be said that without "socialism" as defined by some, quite a few of us would not have lived past their first birthdays.
We all know that some people think anything publicly funded using taxation as being socialism and without thinking it through would still be driving on unpaved meandering tracks in the dirt. Drinking untreated water from the nearest ditch and watching as their family, friends, neighbors die from untreated illnesses or no vaccines having been developed via the gov. grants through which the majority of them came into being.
No NASA, no military, no education at all for those who cannot afford it. The list is endless of things we use and take for granted that; if they were given the designated category some on here suggest as being "bad socialism" would never have transpired.
Canada and Europe don't have the freedoms and opportunities that the United States has. They're also economically depressed and much more authoritarian. Canada and European countries have much smaller populations than the U.S. Their citizens are also much more homogenous than the United States. It's comparing apples to oranges when people compare the United States to Canada and European countries.
Canada and Europe would be much worse off than they are now if the USA wasn't providing so much of their national defense...directly, and indirectly through NATO.
Both places are freeloading off of the USA, militarily, and economically.
Proof: see Ukranine, who decided not to join NATO, and freeload off of us.
Its obviously much better for countries to freeload off us...Sweden just wised upto that.
Last edited by beach43ofus; 11-15-2022 at 08:13 AM..
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier
Canada and Europe don't have the freedoms and opportunities that the United States has. They're also economically depressed and much more authoritarian. Canada and European countries have much smaller populations than the U.S. Their citizens are also much more homogenous than the United States. It's comparing apples to oranges when people compare the United States to Canada and European countries.
They have more opportunities, economic mobility is substantially higher. Never mind access to higher ed.
Homogenity is thrown around, without empirical backing. There seems to be a narrative, unsupported by the research, that if a country has less diversity it has less problems. Size is just a scaling issue. If anything, we should be more efficient achieving ecohomies of scale.
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Location: Great Britain
27,175 posts, read 13,455,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus
Canada and Europe would be much worse off than they are now if the USA wasn't providing so much of their national defense...directly, and indirectly through NATO.
Both places are freeloading off of the USA, militarily, and economically.
Proof: see Ukranine, who decided not to join NATO, and freeload off of us.
Its obvious much better for countries to freeload off us.
The US only spends 5% of it;s defence budget on Europe, and as such gets a fairly good deal, given the access it gets through NATO and ability to project forces globally.
European countries spend more on foreign aid than the US spends on defending Europe and foreign aid combined.
It's also worth noting that most European countries have no permanent US military bases, and US bases tend to be in Germany, Italy, UK and Spain.
Official development assistance (in absolute terms) contributed by the top 10 DAC countries is as follows. European Union countries together gave $75,838,040,000 and EU Institutions gave a further $19.4 billion.The European Union accumulated a higher portion of GDP as a form of foreign aid than any other economic union.
Canada and Europe don't have the freedoms and opportunities that the United States has. They're also economically depressed and much more authoritarian. Canada and European countries have much smaller populations than the U.S. Their citizens are also much more homogenous than the United States. It's comparing apples to oranges when people compare the United States to Canada and European countries.
I'll just leave these here in response that will of course be dismissed by only one country's citizens as being "subjective". Ergo; no factual response just more indoctrinated bumph and phony superiority nonsense.
The criteria in place for all of these studies are shown in each one and while you might object to their relevance, there is no debate possible over the fact most of them are compiled by right wing think tanks, even American sources. The overwhelming majority of studies done show Canada ranking higher in scores across the entire spectrum of Freedoms and most tangible QOL indices.
So without presenting links showing the apposite view, instead simply stating "but, but, those are all subjective" ain't gonna cut it and never did the many other times that fragile excuse has been used before. They're no more subjective than Americans being indoctrinated from birth they're the freest and bestest.
I am not a fan of leftwing politics. I believe in limited government and American freedoms. However there is a chorus on here from MAGA's and others outside of CD that the left is so dangerous we will end up destroyed or a banana republic or full blown socialist if the left has their way.
However the left is in power in Europe. Scandinavia is very left wing. Canada is also. Yet they are not destroyed. I don't want us to be like them. With socialized health care, high taxes and less freedoms. But if the left did win here we would be more likely like Scandinavia not Venezuela. Norway or Canada has not dismantled capitalism and implemented Socialism. Why would it be any different here?
Does anyone on here really believe the rhetoric of someone like Mark Levin?
"America is being destroyed. If you want to destroy America, then you vote Democrat because the Democrat Party has been unmasked. Its policies and programs are delusional and destructive, and they are dismantling the most fabulous nation on earth right before your eyes," Levin told viewers.
Levin said the party has banded together in a concerted effort to destroy capitalism and implement a socialist economy.
It's a far-right scare tactic. Has been for a loooooong time. I'm a former far right conservative but am more moderate nowadays. R's need to move away from Trump and the conspiracies, I could return if that is done.
I am not a fan of leftwing politics. I believe in limited government and American freedoms. However there is a chorus on here from MAGA's and others outside of CD that the left is so dangerous we will end up destroyed or a banana republic or full blown socialist if the left has their way.
However the left is in power in Europe. Scandinavia is very left wing. Canada is also. Yet they are not destroyed. I don't want us to be like them. With socialized health care, high taxes and less freedoms. But if the left did win here we would be more likely like Scandinavia not Venezuela. Norway or Canada has not dismantled capitalism and implemented Socialism. Why would it be any different here?
Does anyone on here really believe the rhetoric of someone like Mark Levin?
"America is being destroyed. If you want to destroy America, then you vote Democrat because the Democrat Party has been unmasked. Its policies and programs are delusional and destructive, and they are dismantling the most fabulous nation on earth right before your eyes," Levin told viewers.
Levin said the party has banded together in a concerted effort to destroy capitalism and implement a socialist economy.
Simple answer to that question. The endless yammering about "Marxists" and "communists" and the constant fear mongering about a "Leftist takeover" WORKS to manipulate the simple minded voters here in America. In large part we have lost our critical thinking skills and the ability to distinguish facts from propaganda.
We have not had a true activist Left here in the States since the 60's. I am old enough to remember the SLA and the SDS and the Weathermen, those folks were true Leftist radicals. Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubin, John Sinclair and so on. Since then the whole country has moved a lot to the Right, such that the average Democrat of today resembles a Republican of the early 70's.
Fact is that a hybrid system such as we have had for over 100 years works really well; socialize those things that make sense, and privatize those that don't. Regulate where it is needed and let the free market work where it isn't. Modify and optimize as we go along.
Most Americans are practical centrists, it's an exceedingly small number that want communism or right wing authoritarianism.
Last edited by GearHeadDave; 11-15-2022 at 08:00 AM..
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