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First, impeachment - this is analogous to indictment, it is a process for deciding to bring charges and for deciding what those charges should be. May or may not be for an indictable crime as we normally define such.
Second, conviction (or not) - analogous to a trial, is the president guilty of the charges brought by the impeachment process. If conviction occurs, the president is removed from office.
I certainly thought he should have been convicted of fomenting an insurrection. Obviously, that didn't happen.
As many people have observed, impeachment/conviction is a political process as much as or even more than it is a trial of fact.
Note that even though we use some of the same words to describe them, impeachment is not a criminal trial.
If a president is successfully impeached and loses office, s/he might still have to go through a criminal trial, depending on what s/he was impeached for. The Constitution provides that the ONLY penalty for successful impeachment is loss of office. "Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law." https://www.heritage.org/constitutio...or-impeachment
Convinced that Trump was "fomenting insurrection", then surely you have seen evidence of something that convinced you.
Please post that evidence here. Maybe you can help convince others with some compelling evidence. All I have seen are videos and Tweets of Trump telling everyone to be peaceful and law abiding.
Please post the evidence you have where President Trump is shown "fomenting insurrection". I am very curious to see it. Thanks.
Nah. This is a property of the impeachment process itself. As I said above, "high crimes and misdemeanors" is pretty much what Congress says it is. And "high crimes and misdemeanors" may or may not have anything to do with our everyday definitions of crime.
And you could just as well argue that Rs started this when they impeached Clinton.
Most Americans did not agree that a president should be removed from office for lying about a blow job. And a blow job between consenting adults, in or out of marriage, hasn't been a crime for quite some time.
Clinton's law license was suspended for five years, he paid a $90,000 fine, and he was forever disbarred from presenting cases before SCOTUS. Seems to me that was an appropriate penalty for his lying.
I will remind you that Bill Clinton was cited for contempt of court for committing perjury in his Paula Jones testimony . He also lied on his Lewinsky deposition, resulting in 5 years temporarily disbarred from Arkansas law practice and resigned from the Supreme Court bar.
It is not the action, it is the cover up. Nixon was impeached for covering up somebody else's crime. If Nixon had not tried to protect the criminals, he would not have been impeached. If Bill Clinton simply admitted to sexual improprieties with a White House intern, he would never have been impeached.
Next year the GOP will have the majority in the house. Its widely thought that they will try to impeach Biden.
Now a sitting POTUS is suppose to be impeached for committing an impeachable offense.
The constitution says these crimes are impeachable:
Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
Treason and bribery are easy but what is a high crime or misdemeanor?
How broad can this be defined? Can the GOP simply say something Biden did is impeachable, vote on it and impeach Biden? Are there any checks and balances?
They will likely impeach, since the Dems impeached Trump twice, but he'll never be convicted. It takes, I believe, a 2/3 vote in the senate to convict.
They will likely impeach, since the Dems impeached Trump twice, but he'll never be convicted. It takes, I believe, a 2/3 vote in the senate to convict.
I don't believe the GOP are that stupid. It is bad optics to impeach a sitting president over nothing. I don't believe anyone in the GOP is as stupid as Adam Schiff or Nancy Pelosi.
Now, should an investigation into Hunter Biden's corruption lead back to the "Big Guy", then it is all bets are off.
At this time, there is no evidence for any charge upon which to impeach Biden. What would they impeach him for? Misreading a teleprompter? Shaking hands with people who are not there? Referring to past incidents that never happened. That is not a crime.
The dems impeached Trump without having proved he committed any crimes. They impeached him for what they thought he might have been thinking about doing. The dems made it so we can impeach a president if his political opponents imagine he has secret thoughts that they don't agree with.
You think so little of the democratic process. Why do you think that the process of impeachment has only been used as to three presidents? It is not some partisan ploy.
Republicans need to face the fact that Trump merited impeachment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor Blevin
Please post that evidence here. Maybe you can help convince others with some compelling evidence. All I have seen are videos and Tweets of Trump telling everyone to be peaceful and law abiding.
Trump knew he had lost and told his gathering throngs that they would 'have to fight' for Dear Leader. Then they rioted at the Capitol. Connect the dots.
I didn't forget. The OP asked specifically about High Crimes and Misdemeanors. They said they understood Treason and Bribery.
Regardless, I can't think of a President in my lifetime (61 years) who did anything that could even remotely be considered Treason, except perhaps Obama's insidious efforts to create a racial divide, which has proven to be a very effective first step in destroying this country. Pretty much all Presidents, except perhaps Carter, flirt with Bribery.
Taking bribes from a communist regime and then as President either through executive orders and or introduce legislation, or sign off on legislation that benefits that communist regime. Also in Bidens case we have the Ukraine.....Many seem to think that a rank and file contractor or low level employee should have their asses handed to them when receiving monies from our enemies, but if the president does it, oh well, what are you going to do?.....absolute criminality at its worst when our leaders do this, and its rampant, and Biden isn't the only high ranking government official profiting from payoffs....I'm 65, grew up in DC, from a military family, possess security clearances, and I've never witnessed such a compromised president in my lifetime.
Convinced that Trump was "fomenting insurrection", then surely you have seen evidence of something that convinced you.
Please post that evidence here. Maybe you can help convince others with some compelling evidence. All I have seen are videos and Tweets of Trump telling everyone to be peaceful and law abiding.
Please post the evidence you have where President Trump is shown "fomenting insurrection". I am very curious to see it. Thanks.
We all heard him many times insisting that the election was stolen from him and urging his followers to fight against the alleged theft. Whether you want to think that it was sheer coincidence that a rather large group - of admittedly stupid and credulous folks - took him literally on a day that he specified is up to you. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...ngton-dc-jan-6
Given the benefit of hindsight following the recent midterms, I'd bet money that there are a few Senate Rs who, in their darkest, deepest thoughts, aren't wondering whether they should have voted to convict him. But alas, most likely it will be years before they'll ever admit to it.
I will remind you that Bill Clinton was cited for contempt of court for committing perjury in his Paula Jones testimony . He also lied on his Lewinsky deposition, resulting in 5 years temporarily disbarred from Arkansas law practice and resigned from the Supreme Court bar.
It is not the action, it is the cover up. Nixon was impeached for covering up somebody else's crime. If Nixon had not tried to protect the criminals, he would not have been impeached. If Bill Clinton simply admitted to sexual improprieties with a White House intern, he would never have been impeached.
It is the cover up, baby.
No need to remind me, since I said as much in the post you are quoting and replying to! I will repeat it here, to save you the trouble of going back to read it for yourself - "Clinton's law license was suspended for five years, he paid a $90,000 fine, and he was forever disbarred from presenting cases before SCOTUS. Seems to me that was an appropriate penalty for his lying."
I agree, it is the coverup, baby. Trump's is pretty darn weak and after the fact.
But, as I have also said repeatedly in this thread, impeachment is primarily a political process rather than a trial of fact. And we know this because the only punishment for a conviction on the impeachment article(s) is ouster from office.
Can they...of course, and the frothing at the mouth desire the Democrats showed to Impeach Trump shows that is the case.
However, I hope they realize that it means nothing any longer without a Conviction in the Senate, and that is NOT going to happen. Of course if they do impeach Biden, even if the next (R) President is a great leader and widely popular if the (D)'s hold the House they too will be impeached to "get even".
With this metric, with multiple failures using false information driving impeachments on Trump, the score is currently even?
So any impeachments on Biden will later have to be “evened out” with more democrat led impeachments?
Seriously?
Doesn’t everyone know that false Russian collusion and deep state (swamp) government agencies drove false narratives that drove misguided democrats down dead ends?
You think so little of the democratic process. Why do you think that the process of impeachment has only been used as to three presidents? It is not some partisan ploy.
And then immediately followed it with this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manigault
Republicans need to face the fact that Trump merited impeachment.
And your apparent evidence that Trump "merited" impeachment is:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manigault
Connect the dots.
I'm just going to leave you with your own words now, and hope that you give some thought to what you wrote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manigault
Why do you think that the process of impeachment has only been used as to three presidents? It is not some partisan ploy.
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