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If I tell a story about my life that involves paragliding--I was an advanced rated paraglider pilot--I am telling paragliding stories.
That's fine. Most performers do tell personal stories at times. But it's not quite the same. This is more of sharing a hardship he went through. I remember Ellen Degeneres stand up special years ago (first tour after she came out) where she did the same thing. There were women and girls who stood up to tell her with tears in their eyes how much her public coming out helped them. I thought it was wonderful. It made her very human.
That's fine. Most performers do tell personal stories at times. But it's not quite the same. This is more of sharing a hardship he went through. I remember Ellen Degeneres stand up special years ago (first tour after she came out) where she did the same thing. There were women and girls who stood up to tell her with tears in their eyes how much her public coming out helped them. I thought it was wonderful. It made her very human.
I could, at a Christmas musical, stand up and tell a story about the way my (paraglider) wing collapsed in a rotor and I went into a spiral dive and came about twenty feet from crashing into the ground, and no doubt dying, before finally recovering, re-inflating my wing, and finishing the flight down the canyon. I could even tell the story with tears in my eyes.
But if I did, at a Christmas presentation, I'm not giving the audience what they paid to see or hear. And it doesn't matter how traumatic the near crash was for me... NOBODY gives a damn besides me. That isn't what they were at my Christmas show to hear, unless they were all paraglider pilots. Likewise, unless the audience are all homosexuals or otherwise obsessed with sexual matters, that's not what the audience in an ultra-conservative, religious, insular community in rural Utah wants to hear.
The proof that what I'm telling you is true is the fact that a bunch of the audience got up and walked out. I've been in Delta, Utah many, many times over the years. Spent some time there and know the place to some extent. If asked beforehand, I could have TOLD you that this would have happened. And a professional performer (or his staff) should have the brains to do a little research before the fact.
It's like the band Ghost going into the Vatican to do a rock concert. It AIN'T going to go over well.
Why should he offer refunds? The show was over by then. Lots of performers tell personal stories. I happen to like it.
To show he is sympathetic to the audience members his ambush presentation may have traumatized...
Let's be completely real here. Any proposal that there is an "equal rights" aspect to this story, is a red herring.
What actually happened here is that customers who believed they were buying entertainment were blindsided with polarizing indoctrination. And when they exercised their right to leave, were vilified by their antagonist.
Refunds should be offered to make amends, give the victims their right to vote with their wallets.....think of it as an ex post facto boycott.
Imagine the outrage if some performing musician made a 15 minute presentation advocating conversion therapy, during the course of their show? I believe the mainstream deserves the right to not be offended too.
BTW, you would be under no obligation to accept a refund since you, by your own admission, "liked it". What I am proposing is that those members who did not enjoy the experience, chose to leave, and were then insulted for doing so, should be entitled to refunds.
Last edited by Always Needmore; 01-06-2023 at 11:50 AM..
It's interesting that so many people here (mostly leftists) have their panties in a wad because some of the audience got up and walked out. That is their right. Period. If they didn't like the show for whatever reason, then they did they right thing. That's the way entertainment is. If it sucks (in your opinion) for whatever reason, you have every right to leave and not waste your time listening to it.
I went to a local rock concert many years ago here in my area--Rick Springfield. The concert was decent. However, about 3/4 of the way through the show, Rick saw fit to--in UTAH--do everything he could to offend the mormons in the audience and outright blaspheme. It really was way over the top. I'm not super religious, but even I was offended. I can imagine how the (largely) LDS audience felt. I left the concert. Don't know how many stayed after that. Rick Springfield had some pretty decent songs--a few of which I played in bands for years. But I have to say I lost a lot of respect for him that day. Still like some of the music, but that crap was totally uncalled for. In another state at another concert, the exact same words wouldn't have really meant much of anything. I'm sure Rick did this intentionally, but again, it goes back to knowing what your audience wants and not offending them--either intentionally or unintentionally.
well, he had the right to speak whatever he wants in his show, and the audience has the right to walk out. he should not get a hissy fit. he chose to say the words, now not wanting the consequences.
He has the right to be homosexual, but he does not have the right to expect others to applaud him.
The thing is among homosexuals is that they feel the need to "come out". (reveal that they are homosexual). Its almost a duty to do that. they sometimes claim they are trying to let other homosexuals know that they are not alone, but still in some situations, it may not be appopriate.
In this case, the people came to hear music.. they probably didn't know he is homosexual, and/or nor would they care.. if they were fans of him, they obviously liked his music. so this guy made his label be more important than the music.. People are sick of hearing the leftists try to indoctrinate their personal habits/lifestyle, its like "here we go again, more stuff i dont care to hear" and they roll their eyes and leave.
Like me, once i used to love Trump, but now when he stars yapping about the past, i roll my eyes and get turned off just because i dont want to hear it again over and over.
To show he is sympathetic to the audience members his ambush presentation may have traumatized...
Let's be completely real here. Any proposal that there is an "equal rights" aspect to this story, is a red herring.
What actually happened here is that customers who believed they were buying entertainment were blindsided with polarizing indoctrination. And when they exercised their right to leave, were vilified by their antagonist.
Refunds should be offered to make amends, give the victims their right to vote with their wallets.....think of it as an ex post facto boycott.
Imagine the outrage if some performing musician made a 15 minute presentation advocating conversion therapy, during the course of their show? I believe the mainstream deserves the right to not be offended too.
BTW, you would be under no obligation to accept a refund since you, by your own admission, "liked it". What I am proposing is that those members who did not enjoy the experience, chose to leave, and were then insulted for doing so, should be entitled to refunds.
How were they vilified? I copy and pasted the entirety of his social media post above. He didn't insult or vilify anyone.
He didn't "advocate" being gay. No, I don't think people who sat through the entire show and left during a post-show discussion need refunds.
well, he had the right to speak whatever he wants in his show, and the audience has the right to walk out. he should not get a hissy fit. he chose to say the words, now not wanting the consequences.
He has the right to be homosexual, but he does not have the right to expect others to applaud him.
The thing is among homosexuals is that they feel the need to "come out". (reveal that they are homosexual). Its almost a duty to do that. they sometimes claim they are trying to let other homosexuals know that they are not alone, but still in some situations, it may not be appopriate.
In this case, the people came to hear music.. they probably didn't know he is homosexual, and/or nor would they care.. if they were fans of him, they obviously liked his music. so this guy made his label be more important than the music.. People are sick of hearing the leftists try to indoctrinate their personal habits/lifestyle, its like "here we go again, more stuff i dont care to hear" and they roll their eyes and leave.
I agree with all of this. I'm a huge music fan. A whole lot of bands and performers I like (their music) are leftists. Some of them are nauseating leftists--meaning they have to go on a political hissy fit every five minutes. I haven't "cancelled" any of them totally. I'll still listen to the music if I like it. But I will NOT listen to their political caterwauling. And if they start in with it at a concert, yeah, I'm going to walk out no matter how much I like their music.
Same goes for homosexuality. You do you. You have every right to be homosexual. But I have every right to refuse to listen to you boasting about it. I don't agree with it period and I'm not going to "celebrate" behavior I do not believe in. More importantly, I just DON'T CARE. So don't expect that of me and we'll be fine. You do you. Just don't expect me to do you... or even care.
I agree with all of this. I'm a huge music fan. A whole lot of bands and performers I like (their music) are leftists. Some of them are nauseating leftists--meaning they have to go on a political hissy fit every five minutes. I haven't "cancelled" any of them totally. I'll still listen to the music if I like it. But I will NOT listen to their political caterwauling. And if they start in with it at a concert, yeah, I'm going to walk out no matter how much I like their music.
I cant even watch a lot of tv shows (like awards shows) because its a bunch of leftist propaganda. movies, etc. are filled with those messages like Disney movies. I cant even watch Avatar because I think it is trying to promote some of these ideas.
but i think there is enough entertainment that we can enjoy if we can. I'm with you on your opinions!
I could, at a Christmas musical, stand up and tell a story about the way my (paraglider) wing collapsed in a rotor and I went into a spiral dive and came about twenty feet from crashing into the ground, and no doubt dying, before finally recovering, re-inflating my wing, and finishing the flight down the canyon. I could even tell the story with tears in my eyes.
But if I did, at a Christmas presentation, I'm not giving the audience what they paid to see or hear. And it doesn't matter how traumatic the near crash was for me... NOBODY gives a damn besides me. That isn't what they were at my Christmas show to hear, unless they were all paraglider pilots. Likewise, unless the audience are all homosexuals or otherwise obsessed with sexual matters, that's not what the audience in an ultra-conservative, religious, insular community in rural Utah wants to hear.
The proof that what I'm telling you is true is the fact that a bunch of the audience got up and walked out. I've been in Delta, Utah many, many times over the years. Spent some time there and know the place to some extent. If asked beforehand, I could have TOLD you that this would have happened. And a professional performer (or his staff) should have the brains to do a little research before the fact.
It's like the band Ghost going into the Vatican to do a rock concert. It AIN'T going to go over well.
A little research? He was a devout Morman from a strict Morman household, grew up in Utah. Perhaps you should do a little research.
The post in question was a response to an email from the promoter asking him to not talk about it again. He didn’t vilify nor berate anyone that chose to leave.
Pretty sure he’s aware of how conservative, insular and religious the community is.
He chose to tell an inspirational story about how he found his way to self acceptance after being suicidal. It’s an interesting tale, given his background. It took him a long time to come to terms with being gay. He really tried not to be.
Whether that was an appropriate time to do so is a matter of opinion and everyone is entitled to their own feelings about that.
Some of the audience walked out, but the majority did not.
There’s no blanket rule about whether artist can share their own stories or not. Some people liked it, some didn’t. That’s the risk you take. He’d already done his show.
A little research? He was a devout Morman from a strict Morman household, grew up in Utah. Perhaps you should do a little research.
Already knew that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus
He chose to tell an inspirational story about how he found his way to self acceptance after being suicidal. It’s an interesting tale, given his background. It took him a long time to come to terms with being gay. He really tried not to be.
Evidently not devout, though. That particular church believes their leadership receives direct revelation from God. And the tenets of that particular church state that homosexuality is a sin. If one is a "devout" member of that church, one believe it is indeed literally God's church. That being the case, and given the fact that the act of homosexuality is condemned by God (in the eyes of that particular church), a devout member does not "find his way" by justifying his or her sin.
In fact, a person that actually has any logical ability at all, and who does not believe their actions are sins, simply quits the given church and finds another one more in line with his or her beliefs and philosophies. I grew up more or less in the LDS church. Some of my "ways" are sinful in the eyes of that church. Rather than trying to give the church the middle finger and insist that what I do is A-okay, I simply do not participate in that church. Pretty simple concept to understand. But there are so many people who do not think things through. You are not forced to be a member of any church. Thus it makes no sense at all to be a member of a church whose "rules" are not to your liking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus
Whether that was an appropriate time to do so is a matter of opinion and everyone is entitled to their own feelings about that.
Some of the audience walked out, but the majority did not.
There’s no blanket rule about whether artist can share their own stories or not. Some people liked it, some didn’t. That’s the risk you take. He’d already done his show.
As I said earlier... about as appropriate as the band Ghost playing a concert in the Vatican, starting with "From the Pinnacle to the Pit."
There is no "rule," no. But there is the idea of being a bit sensitive to what the audience of the venue is all about. I was a professional musician for years. None of the musicians I worked with would ever have gone into a country/western bar and started playing Morbid Angel tunes. Or a strip club and started playing church hymns.
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