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Old 06-30-2023, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Cape Cod
24,502 posts, read 17,239,538 times
Reputation: 35796

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You know sometimes it is really tough to tell who or what someone is presenting themselves as so I'm sure there are mistakes that are made.

Imagine being arrested and prosecuted because you mistook a dude in a dress that looked like a dude in a dress but he demanded to be referred to as Ma'am.



It's getting that we won't even want to strike up a conversation with a stranger because they might be offended and we might be arrested. Crazy.
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Old 06-30-2023, 04:15 PM
 
27,145 posts, read 15,322,979 times
Reputation: 12072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgustedman View Post
Well Jordan Peterson already had that response that "No I'm not going to be forced to speak like you want me to do"

You can bet that there's going to be a lot more people refusing to follow along no matter the penalties after all you can't lock up all the state.

But the absolute idiocy for a state representative to even put forward such an unconstitutional and illegal law just shows how little those people who have been elected understand of the Constitution and our laws.
Oh, they may well understand it but rather can't stand it.
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Old 06-30-2023, 04:16 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,124 posts, read 18,281,341 times
Reputation: 34994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd View Post
You know sometimes it is really tough to tell who or what someone is presenting themselves as so I'm sure there are mistakes that are made.

Imagine being arrested and prosecuted because you mistook a dude in a dress that looked like a dude in a dress but he demanded to be referred to as Ma'am.



It's getting that we won't even want to strike up a conversation with a stranger because they might be offended and we might be arrested. Crazy.
Isolation and then you'll just have the internet
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Old 06-30-2023, 04:17 PM
 
27,145 posts, read 15,322,979 times
Reputation: 12072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43 View Post
This applies to courtrooms only.
Even if it is dead in the water and quite an affront to the People of Michigan.
You can't put words into people's mouths to force their speech.
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Old 06-30-2023, 04:22 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,124 posts, read 18,281,341 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43 View Post
This applies to courtrooms only.
Yes, forcing people to say things is ok in your book as long as it's in the courtroom ?
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Old 06-30-2023, 04:24 PM
 
8,059 posts, read 3,946,325 times
Reputation: 5356
The Michigan Senate will kill this bill... to save them the embarrassment of SCOTUS killing it!
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Old 06-30-2023, 04:24 PM
 
6,389 posts, read 2,712,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43 View Post
https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-go...uns-courtrooms

Never mind, different. I have to look up the one in the article.

Okay. It's a bill against harassment and intimidation. It criminalizes terrorizing and threatening with words. It covers hate speech against race, religion, sexual orientation, disabilities, age, ethnicity, national origin and affiliations.

It lays out that penalties are not to EXCEED, 5 years in prison or 10K in fines.

Similar to other hate speech laws.

This is not a law if you use the wrong pronoun. This is a law against harassment of the above listed groups. That harassment CAN include you using the wrong pronouns while you are terrorizing someone.
As we see the Progressives have gone from you need to use our preferred pronoun, to you must you our mandatory pronoun. And if you don't we will make you pay. There shouldn't be any fine, let alone a fine or penalty shouldn't exceed 1 millisecond in prison or one penny in fines.

Now, define terrorizing...

Here is a section of the law dealing with terrorizing.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...-HEBH-4474.pdf

Quote:
(b) "Intimidate" means a willful course of conduct involving
17 repeated or continuing harassment of another individual that would
18 cause a reasonable individual to feel terrorized, frightened, or
19 threatened, and that actually causes the victim to feel terrorized,
20 frightened, or threatened. Intimidate does not include
21 constitutionally protected activity or conduct that serves a
22 legitimate purpose.
So if the person "feels" like they are being terrorized this law would apply. Yes, you will notice it says "reasonable individual". But when you are talking about a person who thinks they are a woman, just because they "feel" like it I am not sure you could call them a reasonable individual any longer, but they will be treated as such.
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Old 06-30-2023, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Middle of the valley
48,534 posts, read 34,863,037 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Yes, forcing people to say things is ok in your book as long as it's in the courtroom ?
I had the wrong bill.


This bill covers the harassment and terrorizing of a long list of protected groups.
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Old 06-30-2023, 04:27 PM
 
Location: NMB, SC
43,124 posts, read 18,281,341 times
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Status of the bill....Senate version referred to Committee

https://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(r3...e=2023-HB-4474
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Old 06-30-2023, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Middle of the valley
48,534 posts, read 34,863,037 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankNSense View Post
As we see the Progressives have gone from you need to use our preferred pronoun, to you must you our mandatory pronoun. And if you don't we will make you pay. There shouldn't be any fine, let alone a fine or penalty shouldn't exceed 1 millisecond in prison or one penny in fines.

Now, define terrorizing...

Here is a section of the law dealing with terrorizing.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...-HEBH-4474.pdf



So if the person "feels" like they are being terrorized this law would apply. Yes, you will notice it says "reasonable individual". But when you are talking about a person who thinks they are a woman, just because they "feel" like it I am not sure you could call them a reasonable individual any longer, but they will be treated as such.


It's no different than many similar laws in other locations. Hate speech laws are pretty common.
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