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I have friends in a diverse team doing Ragbrai this year in Iowa. That's bicycling across a rural state with a lot of work and prior planning in order to have a successful excursion. One cannot just 'show up'.
I did a Ragbrai back in the early 90s when Sheila Widnall was Air Force secretary. She was riding in the same Ragbrai, and the Air Force got a number of tickets. My next door neighbor had one, but he couldn't go, so he gave it to me. I'd been an avid road cyclist for about a decade by then...and there were damned few of us black road cyclists (even though there had been a black world road cycling champion in the early 1900s).
A question was asked and answered. If you want to submit that the experience was 'long ago and times are different', that is on you to substantiate the change.
why isn't it on you to substantiate a lack of change, since that is your premise?
The federal parks have been keeping racial statistics of visitors for decades. It's been long known that statistically far fewer people of any non-white race visit the parks than statistically proportionate.
So, no, Trump is not the cause. When I was a teen, we weren't interested in camping, nor were our parents. My wife and daughter are not interested in camping in the slightest...I can't think of anyone currently in my family who is. I can't think of any of our black friends who would be up for anything more than an afternoon excursion into the wilds.
OTOH, I did have an uncle who had been a real cattle-owning Oklahoma cowboy who loved his fishing and hunting.
I've done a lot of camping as a leader of a youth group in which camping was a feature of the group, and I've done some feral pig hunting, but it's not a big thing in my life.
My point is: It's very much true that black people in general are not as interested in camping vacations...but that's not because of Trump. It's not even because of lynching or being afraid of white people. If I had to guess, I'd say it was because we aren't enough generations away from houses without plumbing to think of that as a vacation. I'd bet that's why you don't see a lot of people from India out in tents.
The federal parks have been keeping racial statistics of visitors for decades. It's been long known that statistically far fewer people of any non-white race visit the parks than statistically proportionate.
So, no, Trump is not the cause. When I was a teen, we weren't interested in camping, nor were our parents. My wife and daughter are not interested in camping in the slightest...I can't think of anyone currently in my family who is. I can't think of any of our black friends who would be up for anything more than an afternoon excursion into the wilds.
OTOH, I did have an uncle who had been a real cattle-owning Oklahoma cowboy who loved his fishing and hunting.
I've done a lot of camping as a leader of a youth group in which camping was a feature of the group, and I've done some feral pig hunting, but it's not a big thing in my life.
My point is: It's very much true that black people in general are not as interested in camping vacations...but that's not because of Trump. It's not even because of lynching or being afraid of white people. If I had to guess, I'd say it was because we aren't enough generations away from houses without plumbing to think of that as a vacation. I'd bet that's why you don't see a lot of people from India out in tents.
Who knows.
Neither of my parents had indoor plumbing growing up. My grands certainly did not. My father and mother camped every single year since they married until they retired. They grew up in the foothills of the Appalachia mountains basically in the woods. My paternal parents lived in a tent in a logging camp when they first married.
I always took my kids and grandkids camping, as did my brother and one sister. The other sister, not so much. Maybe it is that people tend to like to do what they did growing up.
It is really hard for me to believe black people would be afraid of white people or lynching in camping areas.
Who knows.
Neither of my parents had indoor plumbing growing up. My grands certainly did not. My father and mother camped every single year since they married until they retired. They grew up in the foothills of the Appalachia mountains basically in the woods. My paternal parents lived in a tent in a logging camp when they first married.
I always took my kids and grandkids camping, as did my brother and one sister. The other sister, not so much. Maybe it is that people tend to like to do what they did growing up.
If that's what they did as children, and they are nostalgic about their childhoods, maybe so.
Quote:
It is really hard for me to believe black people would be afraid of white people or lynching in camping areas.
Nah, that's stuff they just made up with little real investigation. It's true we have relatively less interest...it's not true that's because we're all afraid of Trumpers.
Must we go over it? Look back a few pages. You don't know what occurrence is referred to yet you expound that the onus is on me to substantiate there have been no changes in it? That's truly odd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by uggabugga
no surprise that you have no good answer, or even a poor one.
So, I guess it is a waste if time ever proving something to you since you have me prejudged.
<snip>It is really hard for me to believe black people would be afraid of white people or lynching in camping areas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
<snip>Nah, that's stuff they just made up with little real investigation. It's true we have relatively less interest...it's not true that's because we're all afraid of Trumpers.
Earlier I mentioned camping right by road crossings on the AT can be a problem due to partying locals. For sure, black backpackers might have an additional 'layer of concern' how they might be treated by some out of control drunk who turns racist. Likewise, women alone are more concerned. Both scenarios are undeniable.
That's not the problem I have with the NBC report that, as its evidence (not including the Trump flags), cited the NPR article: Black Women's Groups Find Health And Healing On Hikes, But Sometimes Racism, Too. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...mes-racism-too
I summarized the story in post in #224. Sounds like the confrontation between a group of white horse-riders and a large number of black hikers occurred in the fall of 2020 during pandemic restrictions when the parks were jammed.
MY OBJECTION IS THIS:
It is that the black hiker leader framed the incident as another racist example of having the police called, she says unnecessarily. Who called the deputies is not clear. The park manager *was* on the scene. Presumably he was unable to resolve the issue? (The NPR article is written from the POV of the hikers, and so its hard to say.)
The hiker leader admits she was told their hike was in violation of park rules: "Newton says she regrets putting members in a distressing — and potentially life-threatening — situation by unknowingly breaking a park rule." https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...mes-racism-too
WHAT POTENTIALLY LIFE THREATENING SITUATION? Presumably it was that the two deputies had holstered pistols. There is no suggestion of any improper behavior on their part. Deputies cannot leave weapons they normally wear in their cars to avoid triggering someone who is black, or prevent them from being in a 'safe space.'
The historical past (lynchings etc.) does leave residual fear. Police have in modern times overstepped. But that cannot be used to prevent police as a whole from carrying out their normal functions.
Nor can an ignorance of the rules be used to allow for chaos on the trails - by anyone, of any color. Horses and hikers *flying drones* don't always mix on a narrow mountain trail which is WHY "events" that include use of hiking trails had to be scheduled at the facility. The park management knew horse riders would be using those trails that day - THEY had made reservations. https://www.beaverranch.org/#welcome-2
To turn this type of encounter into 'racism' and to use police presence in this type of situation as a trigger - either to entice readership, solicit outrage, scare the participants themselves by fear-mongering is not IMHO 'helpful.'
Last edited by EveryLady; 07-31-2023 at 12:59 PM..
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in camping areas.