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And as someone who is against abortion, on religious and moral grounds, I have to say this. Abortion will never be the answer to this problem. It has never solved the problem.
We agree ^^ on the bold POV. And of course, abortion won't solve the problem. But as sure as I am sitting here, awful parenting from broken families in tough hoods WILL produce M-A-N-Y additional crimes, additional welfare benefits, additional prison sentences, additional murders, additional mental illnesses, etc. As an awful bonus, that cycle will continue reproducing more problem children for the next generation. That was my point.
Since you obviously want less crime, less welfare, fewer murders, pay for fewer people in prison, and slow down this awful cycle, your vote is to do what?... Make people who are broke and lousy parents who are already morally corrupt reproduce because why again? They want an abortion. Not you or me. It seems you are doing the country a disservice in order to sleep at night.
Personally, I'd like to see them hand out abortion pills in the hood like candy.
there also must be some blame placed on schools for promoting them to the next grade when they have zero competency.
So what's your solution? Hold them back so an 18-year-old is taking classes in the 6th grade for another 6 school years? And at age 30, move them up to 8th grade?
The only thing that could be done is for those kids to be taken out of their homes, and placed into military-style boarding schools. It's obvious the environments alot of criminals (and those who have the potential to become criminals) come from will only create more criminals. Prison, or the threat of prison, won't get it out of them. In order for a kid to not become a criminal, said kid needs to be put in an environment where criminal behavior will not be fostered.
We agree. Based on experience, younger problem kids yearn for discipline. In college, our son started a program in a poor elementary school where they did exactly what you said. Had them do marching, was firm with them, etc. It was an after-school program. There were only so many slots for this activity. They had 4X more kids wanting to attend than they had room for. That program is still going strong today. He said the kids LOVED it. As if, they wanted someone to care enough to have higher expectations.
The failing education system in this country is really starting to scare me for our future. I don't say this lightly and I don't normally go all chicken little, but this trend keeps going and we're in for a hurting.
I don't want to think this, but it's starting to feel like it's on purpose. Create dumb people who will be dependent on government assistance. I never would have even entertained that thought just a few years ago.
Well, for me it is concerning. At the same time, I think about this. I don't think it's so much America's education system that's failing. It is certain places within America that are failing. Not everyone is being failed by the education system. Baltimore is full of terrible schools. However, Ellicot City, not to far from Baltimore, has much better schools, much less crime, and generally, a much nicer place to live.
Baltimore is declining and has been declining for decades. Baltimore, Detroit, St. Louis, New Orleans, Memphis, Newark, and alot of other declining post-industrial cities are dealing with alot of crime and bad schools.
America has an issue, not so much with the school system being bad as a whole. Rather, it's alot of bad school systems unevenly distributed. There is more incentive in leaving for greener pastures than fixing things.
We agree ^^ on the bold POV. And of course, abortion won't solve the problem. But as sure as I am sitting here, awful parenting from broken families in tough hoods WILL produce M-A-N-Y additional crimes, additional welfare benefits, additional prison sentences, additional murders, additional mental illnesses, etc. As an awful bonus, that cycle will continue reproducing more problem children for the next generation. That was my point.
Since you obviously want less crime, less welfare, fewer murders, pay for fewer people in prison, and slow down this awful cycle, your vote is to do what?... Make people who are broke and lousy parents who are already morally corrupt reproduce because why again? They want an abortion. Not you or me. It seems you are doing the country a disservice in order to sleep at night.
Personally, I'd like to see them hand out abortion pills in the hood like candy.
Personally, we should not be handing out any abortion pills, period. This is what we need to admit. With or without abortion this problem is going to continue. Say what you will about me and the "sleep at night" comment. However, this goes to the crux of a bigger issue. We have such long-standing moral problems in this country.
Even if access to abortion was made easier, said persons keep on producing children out of wedlock, who themselves are born into broken homes, who contribute to the cycle of crime and despair. We're dealing with MORAL problems that abortion will never solve, and we should never been turning to abortion for. We're dealing with a subsegment of society that things having children outside of wedlock is normal. We're dealing with individuals who have given up and basically think there is nothing better they can do in life beside have gratuitous sex (and procreate in irresponsible, immoral ways).
This is how it should go. You better yourself, then get married, then have sex, then produce children.
The only plausible solution I could think of goes outside of the Constitution. I've often wondered if a theocracy would put an end to such issues.
We agree. Based on experience, younger problem kids yearn for discipline. In college, our son started a program in a poor elementary school where they did exactly what you said. Had them do marching, was firm with them, etc. It was an after-school program. There were only so many slots for this activity. They had 4X more kids wanting to attend than they had room for. That program is still going strong today. He said the kids LOVED it. As if, they wanted someone to care enough to have higher expectations.
At this point, I think alot of money we spend on prisons needs to be put into establishing military-style boarding schools. That way, the kids who crave structure, discipline, and success can get all of that. If there are 4x as many kids who want that than there is room for, them maybe more of our tax dollars need to go there.
Personally, we should not be handing out any abortion pills, period. This is what we need to admit. With or without abortion this problem is going to continue. Say what you will about me and the "sleep at night" comment. However, this goes to the crux of a bigger issue. We have such long-standing moral problems in this country.
Even if access to abortion was made easier, said persons keep on producing children out of wedlock, who themselves are born into broken homes, who contribute to the cycle of crime and despair. We're dealing with MORAL problems that abortion will never solve, and we should never been turning to abortion for. We're dealing with a subsegment of society that things having children outside of wedlock is normal. We're dealing with individuals who have given up and basically think there is nothing better they can do in life beside have gratuitous sex (and procreate in irresponsible, immoral ways).
This is how it should go. You better yourself, then get married, then have sex, then produce children.
The only plausible solution I could think of goes outside of the Constitution. I've often wondered if a theocracy would put an end to such issues.
Yes. We do have a moral problem in this country. I'm not the least bit religious. And personally, we wouldn't have an abortion for OUR moral reasons which has nothing to do with religion.
Still, it is not MY business what people do. And I cannot apply my morality to someone else's when it comes to this topic. So long as they don't rob me or others, kill people I love, help bankrupt my country or state, etc. I'll take the trade-offs. I'd much rather not have another 30,000 people reproduce in Baltimore every year who don't want their children. If you think abortion is cruel, how about having a child that isn't wanted?! Never mind the impact on other children in that family. Kids are EXPENSIVE. It can apply massive stress and create even more problems. But you knew that.
These are not open-and-shut cases. Morally, I'm against a war. But I'm smart enough to understand that there are times you need to intervene. Nor am I a fan of capital punishment which like war, it kills people. But I'm reluctantly okay with capital punishment and some wars too. And abortion too. Therefore, bring on the abortions for people who are AWFUL parents. The net-net is a win for society. And it's NOT my place to interject.
At this point, I think alot of money we spend on prisons needs to be put into establishing military-style boarding schools. That way, the kids who crave structure, discipline, and success can get all of that. If there are 4x as many kids who want that than there is room for, them maybe more of our tax dollars need to go there.
BTW Green Mariner. I read a lot of your correspondence in this thread. You are a good person and have thought a lot about your positions. You added a lot of value when you tied in your personal experiences with feelings and stories. I connected with your words. Thanks for sharing.
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That was my point. 
You added a lot of value when you tied in your personal experiences with feelings and stories. I connected with your words. Thanks for sharing.
