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If the case does go to appeal, Trump can argue that the disgorgement was excessive, and try and get the monies he has to pay back lessened.
However, I don’t see how he wiggles out of the judgments themselves.
I keep telling you this and you keep ignoring it - he didn’t just lie to banks, he lied to insurers and a government agency. He didn’t just use the upper echelon of possible property valuations, he did stuff like triple the square footage of his Trump Tower penthouse. The actual size of an asset is not a matter of opinion.
So I don’t know what you call that.
Deutsche Bank and others in this realm of large loans are very capable of coming up with an evaluation. No one lost any money. Everyone did really well. The notion that the state of NY needs to step in and save big multinational businesses from Trump is ludicrous. I am sure they are all ready to line and do business with him again and make a lot of money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus
No one on earth can argue that’s not intentionally misleading. It’s not just the one overvaluation. There are numerous, and the cooperate officers that prepared the data for his statements are not allowed by law to commit such outright deception, or deviate from GAAP.
I don’t see how the judge’s ruling that Trump Org and its officers falsified business records and conspired to commit insurance fraud is overturned. That’s overwhelmingly true.
You’re smarter than to believe they simply pushed the limits of legitimate valuation, like everyone does.
That’s the BS propaganda coming from the Trump camp. It’s not true.
I am not going by what Trumps people are saying I am going by Reason.com who loathes Trump but sees a big problem with this ruling and Kevin from Shark Tank who says Trump did nothing out of the ordinary. And there are lots of others who understand this business. Are not fans of Trump but see this decision as very wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus
People need to read the judgment and not take Trump’s word for it. He really doesn’t tell the truth. It’s so endemic to he and his officers to lie that they think it’s just normal business practice. It isn’t.
Like I said I am not listening to Trump's people but others in the industry who say this is standard business practice. You make it sound like everyone things it was a great decision except for Trump's people.
Last edited by Oklazona Bound; 02-27-2024 at 03:45 PM..
This was tried in civil court. It wasn't a criminal case. Penal Law violations are prosecuted in criminal court. This wasn't it.
The judge found them liable on each action and cited NY Penal Law statutes in addition to the Executive Law 63 statute. The prosecutor had to prove they violated the penal law statutes cited.
“Second Cause of Action
Defendants Donald Trump, Allen Weisselberg, Jeffrey McConney, Eric Trump, and Donald Trump, Jr. are each liable under the second cause for action for repeatedly and persistently falsifying business records, thus violating Executive Law § 63(12) and New York Penal Law § 175.05.
Penal Law § 175.00 defines a “business record” as “any writing or article, including computer data or a computer program, kept or maintained by an enterprise for the purpose of evidencing or reflecting its condition or activity.” Clearly, each of the SFCs and supporting spreadsheets that were submitted to lenders and insurers qualifies as a business record, as each constituted a writing kept by the Trump Organization for the purpose of evidencing or reflecting its activities. Additionally, the individual defendants’ actions in furnishing false information and values to third parties caused third parties, such as Deutsche Bank, to create their own business records that contain fraudulent information, such as the credit memoranda created by Deutsche Bank and Ladder Capital.”
Deutsche Bank and others in this realm of large loans are very capable of coming up with an evaluation. No one lost any money. Everyone did really well. The notion that the state of NY needs to step in and save big multinational businesses from Trump is ludicrous. I am sure they are all ready to line and do business with him again and make a lot of money.
I am not going by what Trumps people are saying I am going by Reason.com who loathes Trump but sees a big problem with this ruling and Kevin from Shark Tank who says Trump did nothing out of the ordinary. And there are lots of others who understand this business. Are not fans of Trump but see this decision as very wrong.
Like I said I am not listening to Trump's people but others in the industry who say this is standard business practice.
Ok that’s fair enough, I appreciate your take on it.
Read through the entire law. Cite where it says the State of NY can charge a fine or penalty.
It simply does not. It only allows for restitution, damages, and/or relief. None of those apply in this case as there were no victims and no damages.
Restitution + Interest applies here. He is ordered to return the profits he obtained fraudulently, i.e. “stole,” plus interest to the dates the crimes were committed. The dollar amount is huge because his crimes were huge.
Why did Trump tell the banks to perform their own appraisals? Because the valuations he submitted were based on his opinion and banks lend based on their own valuations of the collateral.
The judge doesn't seem to be too bright or competent.
That disclaimer is not a legal document and carries zero weight to defend him.
Whether banks, insurance companies, the IRS, etc. are capable of making realistic value assessments, but instead go along with phony numbers with a wink and a nudge because who does this phony business hurt.
Really?
This is why Trump should be exempt from following laws put in place to protect investors, keep the stock market from crashing via phony deals, ...
You value the property the best you can with the information you have. That's what the banks did in this case. They're satisfied with the terms of the loan contracts, all loans were paid in full, and the banks profitted from the transaction.
Did you ever read the judgement? You seem to still not understand the charges and why he was convicted.
And how do you obtain “the best information you have”?
You ask to see the books.
Trump’s financial statements were supplied to the banks with spreadsheets containing actual revenues earned by the business generated by the properties, to support the assumptions made in the valuations.
I’ll give you one guess as to how truthful those revenue statements were.
Yep, one for obtaining credit, and one for the taxman.
And one for Forbes.
They proved in this trial that Trump wildly fluctuates his valuations depending on the audience.
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