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I posted all of it. You did lie about what I said, twice, and you completely forgot what you actually said to which I disagreed. Anyone can go back and read it.
How are the comments below not logically equivalent? I'm not seeing how you think I've forgotten what I said.
Because my comment didn't say anything about students today being less intelligent. My comment was about whether below average IQ students at these universities were a real cause of these protests.
I think you'll have a hard time arguing that these students on campus at competitive universities are below-average in terms of intelligence.
As for your comments, I'm not going to lay out the logic again.
Last edited by Wittgenstein's Ghost; 05-06-2024 at 06:04 PM..
How are the comments below not logically equivalent? I'm not saying how you think I've forgotten what I said.
Because my comment didn't say anything about students today being less intelligent. My comment was about whether below average IQ students at these universities were a real cause of these protests.
I think you'll have a hard time arguing that these students on campus at competitive universities are below-average in terms of intelligence.
Here's your post (in its entirety) to which I responded, and I stand by my response:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost
I think you'll have a hard time arguing that these students on campus at competitive universities are below-average in terms of intelligence.
How can you prove that when many of the admitted students never even submitted any test scores?
I cannot prove that only a handful, at most, of admitted students at top universities have an IQ of 98. I never said I could. That's an absurdly high bar, just as it would be an absurdly high bar for me to ask you to prove that a certain percentage of students do have an IQ of 98. But we know a few things:
The majority of students at top universities submitted scores, even under test optional policies.
At schools like Columbia, acceptance rates are below 4%.
Roughly 96% of students at these schools are in the top 10% of their graduating class. It's highly likely that the remaining 4% had very high test scores.
Students who did submit scores averaged about a top 1% test score.
Diversity numbers didn't really change with test optional policies
So we're already dealing with a minority of students here -- the majority of admitted students submitted scores. The remainder were high-achievers in school, and your notion of the low IQ valedictorian is, while not impossible, quite the exception. An IQ of 98 is one standard deviation below the average for college graduates. These schools are many, many times more selective than most. Having an IQ of 98 and getting admitted to a top university would make someone an extreme outlier, particularly when demographic numbers are more or less identical to what they were when test scores were required.
Here's your post (in its entirety) to which I responded, and I stand by my response:
I quoted it in my comment that you just quoted! Did you not read what I wrote?
I asked you how those two comments aren't logically equivalent. If you're just not going to engage with anything I write, and you're done, we can move on.
"Less intelligent" is not the same as "below average".
Below average would mean an IQ less than 98 (as of 2023).. Do you really think "Our country's best colleges and universities are admitting students with an IQ of less than 98? How many people in that IQ range are even going to apply to elite schools - or any colleges or universities?
I cannot prove that only a handful, at most, of admitted students at top universities have an IQ of 98. I never said I could. That's an absurdly high bar, just as it would be an absurdly high bar for me to ask you to prove that a certain percentage of students do have an IQ of 98. But we know a few things:
The majority of students at top universities submitted scores, even under test optional policies.
At schools like Columbia, acceptance rates are below 4%.
Roughly 96% of students at these schools are in the top 10% of their graduating class. It's highly likely that the remaining 4% had very high test scores.
Students who did submit scores averaged about a top 1% test score.
Diversity numbers didn't really change with test optional policies
So we're already dealing with a minority of students here -- the majority of admitted students submitted scores. The remainder were high-achievers in school, and your notion of the low IQ valedictorian is, while not impossible, quite the exception. An IQ of 98 is one standard deviation below the average for college graduates. These schools are many, many times more selective than most. Having an IQ of 98 and getting admitted to a top university would make someone an extreme outlier, particularly when demographic numbers are more or less identical to what they were when test scores were required.
Look at the wall closest to you. Try arguing with it.
"Less intelligent" is not the same as "below average".
Below average would mean an IQ less than 98 (as of 2023).. Do you really think "Our country's best colleges and universities are admitting students with an IQ of less than 98? How many people in that IQ range are even going to apply to elite schools - or any colleges or universities?
But... But.... But... There was a high school valedictorian who struggled in college.
@InformedConsent. Ivy colleges consider the graduating HS students and where they ended up. For instance, if they attended here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvar...nited%20States. like our DIL, you get why they take a strong look at that student when they have a high-class rank. After all, it's the 6th best-ranked private K-12 school in the USA. And that school is priced accordingly. Yeah, admissions in every top college have that school name memorized.
Plus, admissions look at their essays, what classes they took, etc. In your not-so-good example, OBVIOUSLY, that student who struggled in college math didn't have a fighting chance of getting into Harvard because they didn't take algebra in HS!
Per Wittgenstein's Ghost, you are misguided in your conclusion. I'm just a parent who's been through the Ivy application process. I'm not guessing. I groomed our kids to get great ACT which is used more in the Midwest. I hired tutors, had them take the test 15 times, etc. In our son's case, he struggled with taking the test fast enough. Solution: focus on fast deduction processes. With time and $$, his ACT score went up 7 points. All because my checkbook is thicker than other students. Hence, the policy change was to make the test "optional."
I'll bet the farm that nearly all applicants at Harvard, for instance, STILL submitted their ACT/SAT. @Wittgenstein's Ghost, do you happen to have that answer? Or putting it another way, how many people who declined to submit their ACT/SAT got in the best of the best colleges? I suspect it is going to be extremely low.
Plus, some top schools interview too. For instance, Stanford had an alumni interview with our son. He didn't get into Stanford or Harvard, but he did get into both for medical school (he chose Harvard.) And yes, they ARE looking for "diversity." Our white, straight, male son brought diversity to his medical school. "Diversity" can mean all kinds of things. Racking and staking SAT, MCAT, DAT, or LSAT, scores by themselves is IDIOTIC. That test score that you think is the litmus test for IQ has some major drawbacks. But it's been concluded it is still necessary. Hence, the policy changed back to mandatory testing for most of the best-ranked programs. All things being equal, even with its flaws, the standardized test helps.
Look at the wall closest to you. Try arguing with it.
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner. Repped according.
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For instance, if they attended here 
Yeah, admissions in every top college have that school name memorized. 
