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No to both. My kids went to schools that were ranked higher than the Ivies in their STEM fields. .
Makes sense. Ivy's focus on liberal arts. The concept is a well-rounded education. But, I propose all colleges teach most UG material the same way. Meaning, Harvard for instance doesn't necessarily teach Calc 1 better than a community college. You go there for other reasons than taking STEM classes.
Last edited by MN-Born-n-Raised; 05-07-2024 at 04:01 PM..
Smart? Based on what? There is NO objective metric of that when the test score requirement is eliminated.
You cannot have it both ways. You said below-average IQ students enter the Ivy's. So to flip it: "Dumb? Based on what? There is NO objective metric of that when the test score requirement is eliminated."
I gave you techniques that correlate to smart people WITHOUT a SAT score. Have you ever met a person and thought, WOW, they are smart? Gee, how do you know?! You don't have a "objective metric." And AGAIN, nearly all Ivy students who get in submit an ACT or SAT score. Don't you see your flawed logic YET?
You cannot have it both ways. You said below-average IQ students enter the Ivy's. So to flip it: "Dumb? Based on what? There is NO objective metric of that when the test score requirement is eliminated."
There's no proof they're smart, either, just successful lawsuits from highly-qualified Asian students who were rejected so the schools could admit less-qualified others.
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I gave you techniques that correlate to smart people WITHOUT a SAT score. Have you ever met a person and thought, WOW, they are smart?
Not until I get to know them much better. That's not how the college admissions process works. There isn't the time for the admissions committee to get to know the applicants.
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And AGAIN, nearly all Ivy students who get in submit an ACT or SAT score.
That's a myth. The percentage isn't as high as you believe.
You forgot to read your entire link. It reads "Most Elite Colleges Are Concealing Data on the Percentage of Students Who Got In With and Without Scores". There is a reason. I bet it is related to most Ivy's mandating ACT/SAT scores.
When you combine several variables, smart admissions people can figure out how to assemble a process to ascertain smarter students. Of course, that also means others who are not insightful might struggle without a hard objective number. lol
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Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost
If you genuinely think this is a good argument, I'm wasting my time here.
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Agreed! I'm tapping out. Good luck! FYI. I appreciate the education and I found your POV very interesting. So it didn't go unnoticed. But to be sure that I know I can trust your statements and that you aren't below-average intelligence, please PM your SAT score. Without it, you could be as dumb as a box of rocks.
You forgot to read your entire link. It reads "Most Elite Colleges Are Concealing Data on the Percentage of Students Who Got In With and Without Scores". There is a reason. I bet it is related to most Ivy's mandating ACT/SAT scores.
Interesting assessment. I've discussed my experience. And yours?
Can you point to one piece of data that shows "Ivy's are now attracting low-IQ students?" You cannot.
They're test-optional or test-free. And it has already been proven at SCOTUS that Harvard (though others did this, as well) rejected Asian students for less-qualified others because too many Asians are smart.
The important take-away is that colleges/universities don't go test-optional or test-free unless they PURPOSELY want to admit less-qualified students because they intend to enroll a "diverse" student body. Well, guess what? That also includes intellectual diversity. They don't admit just smart kids anymore. It's their SJW effort at inclusion and equity. They're most definitely not meritocracies.
I thought they were doing that for a long time with affirmative action policies.
Hmm...
That is correct, until the Harvard case in which SCOTUS ruled that discriminating against any particular race because too many of them are smart is unconstitutional.
Higher Ed should be meritocratic, but too many colleges/universities aren't. They still discriminate based on geographic location in the US (or abroad), type of and socioeconomic status of high school attended, etc. That, too, results in lower-ability students being admitted.
They're test-optional or test-free. And it has already been proven at SCOTUS that Harvard (though others did this, as well) rejected Asian students for less-qualified others because too many Asians are smart.
With the exception of a few specific programs at Cornell, none of the Ivies are test-blind (aka "test free"). And many have now reversed test-optional policies, including Harvard.
None of the Ivies were test-optional prior to Covid, either.
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But to be sure that I know I can trust your statements and that you aren't below-average intelligence, please PM your SAT score. Without it, you could be as dumb as a box of rocks. 
