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Old 06-06-2008, 07:51 AM
 
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Asked if she saw any evidence of the surge’s positive impact on her May 17 trip to Iraq she responded:

"Well, the purpose of the surge was to provide a secure space, a time for the political change to occur to accomplish the reconciliation. That didn’t happen. Whatever the military success, and progress that may have been made, the surge didn’t accomplish its goal. And some of the success of the surge is that the goodwill of the Iranians-they decided in Basra when the fighting would end, they negotiated that cessation of hostilities-the Iranians."

Commentary » Blog Archive » Pelosi Credits Iran’s “Goodwill” for Surge Success
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Rggr View Post
Asked if she saw any evidence of the surge’s positive impact on her May 17 trip to Iraq she responded:

"Well, the purpose of the surge was to provide a secure space, a time for the political change to occur to accomplish the reconciliation. That didn’t happen. Whatever the military success, and progress that may have been made, the surge didn’t accomplish its goal. And some of the success of the surge is that the goodwill of the Iranians-they decided in Basra when the fighting would end, they negotiated that cessation of hostilities-the Iranians."

Commentary » Blog Archive » Pelosi Credits Iran’s “Goodwill” for Surge Success

Appeasement. It's alive and well.
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:30 AM
 
Location: Washington state
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Originally Posted by BLAZER PROPHET View Post
Appeasement. It's alive and well.
It's called diplomacy, maybe if the Bush administration had learned how to use it, almost 4100 dead Americans would now be alive.
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Upton View Post
It's called diplomacy, maybe if the Bush administration had learned how to use it, almost 4100 dead Americans would now be alive.
And you are correct in that a major part of appeasement is diplomacy. However, when Pelosi starts kissing Iran's a**, as she is, then it breeds more trouble. We saw that same pattern leading up to WWII and Clinton leading to 911.

We need something between the left's appeasment policies and the right's scorch & burn policies.
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
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Iraq and Iran (and all the rest) deserve each other. After they get through fighting each other we can buy the oil from the winner if we need to.
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Iraq and Iran (and all the rest) deserve each other. After they get through fighting each other we can buy the oil from the winner if we need to.

Well said!!

Do you mind if I write you in for president?
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:59 AM
 
Location: ABQ
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Probably not a good idea to align yourself with such an ignorant comment, excluding Western domination in the modern era since 1890. They can all have themselves? When they all get done fighting each other? Putting each and every middle eastern country in the same basket is a REALLY bad idea. In fact, it reminds me of the ideas held by the Bush administration prior to going into war in Iraq.

Each country has its own varied history, often times lead in different directions by Western imperialism. (For instance, in Iran, Britain held them by the throat for the better part of 6 decades, even "owning" Iran's oil before it was ever discovered in Iran -- they also owned every bit of Iran's economy.) Britain's hand in Iraq following the ousting of the Ottoman Empire was triply offensive and of course, who can forget the wonderful T.A. as we have fun along the Mediterranean with Israel and Palestine.

Don't stop there, Cornwallis and the gang sped through India and Pakistan too...

Want to blame someone? How about Britain for starters? Next, we shall blame ourselves for posting silly things on CD showing how very little we know about the Middle East? Yaaaay!
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Old 06-06-2008, 09:54 AM
 
11,128 posts, read 13,390,949 times
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Originally Posted by Puddy4LyF View Post
Probably not a good idea to align yourself with such an ignorant comment, excluding Western domination in the modern era since 1890. They can all have themselves? When they all get done fighting each other? Putting each and every middle eastern country in the same basket is a REALLY bad idea. In fact, it reminds me of the ideas held by the Bush administration prior to going into war in Iraq.

Each country has its own varied history, often times lead in different directions by Western imperialism. (For instance, in Iran, Britain held them by the throat for the better part of 6 decades, even "owning" Iran's oil before it was ever discovered in Iran -- they also owned every bit of Iran's economy.) Britain's hand in Iraq following the ousting of the Ottoman Empire was triply offensive and of course, who can forget the wonderful T.A. as we have fun along the Mediterranean with Israel and Palestine.

Don't stop there, Cornwallis and the gang sped through India and Pakistan too...

Want to blame someone? How about Britain for starters? Next, we shall blame ourselves for posting silly things on CD showing how very little we know about the Middle East? Yaaaay!
Why can't it be both?

British cartographers drawing maps in tuned to imperial expediency as opposed to say, those of T. E. Lawrence which were along more ethnic and religious lines?

Is the west to blame for desire to return to fundamentalist or radical Islamic rule by many in the Middle East? I suspect the west has a hand in it but there seems to have always been a rejection of western ideals for far longer than just in the past 100 years.

I think it should be of some note that during the up and coming elections in Iraq that there is a possibility that Sader may get elected, then what? Since he seems to be the go to guy for most of the Shiite in the south and is sympathetic to Iran, this may make Iraq a far different place than this administration's think tanks had hoped for.
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Old 06-06-2008, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Arizona
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Originally Posted by TnHilltopper View Post
Why can't it be both?
I think it should be of some note that during the up and coming elections in Iraq that there is a possibility that Sader may get elected, then what? Since he seems to be the go to guy for most of the Shiite in the south and is sympathetic to Iran, this may make Iraq a far different place than this administration's think tanks had hoped for.
Sort of like the Palestinian Elections.

Spreading Democracy in the Middle East may not turn out to be such a good idea after all.
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Old 06-06-2008, 10:58 AM
 
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Sort of like the Palestinian Elections.

Spreading Democracy in the Middle East may not turn out to be such a good idea after all.
An excellent point that reminds me of the one of the key differences between Plato and Aristotle's political philosophies. Plato believe that the Republic was the pinnacle of governing, whereas Aristotle believed that there was no single political solution to governing and where a monarchy might better serve one group, a democracy would serve another just the same.

I think it is important to realize that the US has in its past had a vested interest in keeping the Middle East a series of dictators, monarchies, and military junta's for the very obvious reason you stated. If all of the Middle East were governed according to a democratic principle, then it is very likely that Israel would be at war by sundown and the US would be engaged in open conflict in no less than two other states. Supporting dictators and monarchies is economically feasible as we only have to maintain influence over a single person or a small group, as opposed to the majority of millions.

The US desire for democracy in the Middle East is a great fiction that can only be waged through continual instability and conflict. To set a goal that cannot be achieved in order to perpetuate our intervention.
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