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Old 06-18-2008, 07:08 AM
LML
 
Location: Wisconsin
7,100 posts, read 9,111,175 times
Reputation: 5191

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Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
Unless or until they individually or collectively fall under the control of these various neanderthals and religious rapturists. One might as well be renditioned for all the respect these folks will show for the basic rights of others.


.
It seems to me that the most "basic right" is the right to life. And that is a right that you, and those like you, seem happy to deny.

 
Old 06-18-2008, 07:23 AM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,476,088 times
Reputation: 4013
Quote:
Originally Posted by LML View Post
It seems to me that the most "basic right" is the right to life. And that is a right that you, and those like you, seem happy to deny.
Yes, as often as it pleases me. If my wife and I had not made such choices, we might have had 25 children instead of 2. None of those other 23 had any right or claim to life at all. None. How old are you and how many kids do you have? If you aren't at the max, then you're about denying to others rights that you exercised for yourself. That's called hypocrisy...
 
Old 06-18-2008, 07:37 AM
 
8,185 posts, read 12,639,025 times
Reputation: 2893
Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
Yes, as often as it pleases me. If my wife and I had not made such choices, we might have had 25 children instead of 2. None of those other 23 had any right or claim to life at all. None. How old are you and how many kids do you have? If you aren't at the max, then you're about denying to others rights that you exercised for yourself. That's called hypocrisy...
Slapping on a condom hardly equates with late term abortion.....I'm just saying. Unless you are saying your wife had 23 late term abortions?
 
Old 06-18-2008, 08:26 AM
 
Location: NJ/NY
10,655 posts, read 18,663,385 times
Reputation: 2829
The fact of the matter is, that late term abortions account for 1% of the total. These are performed for complicated reasons that no one except for the woman affected would understand. They are involved, expensive procedures that women do not just run out and get over and over. I believe that an abortion before viability is the same, whether or not it's performed at 5 weeks, or 22. Anything else is advocating forced birth.

It is not a life prior to viability.
 
Old 06-18-2008, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Scranton
2,940 posts, read 3,967,807 times
Reputation: 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtoli View Post

It is not a life prior to viability.
Well, its not dead, so it must be a life. There is no in-between.
You just don't want it to be a life, so you don't have to face the reality that you're killing something. The semantics that the extreme-pro-abortion people go through to sugarcoat abortion and dehumanize the unborn would be laughable if it wasn't so sad, coldhearted, and pathetic.
 
Old 06-18-2008, 09:03 AM
 
Location: NJ/NY
10,655 posts, read 18,663,385 times
Reputation: 2829
Quote:
Originally Posted by FightinPhils View Post
Well, its not dead, so it must be a life. There is no in-between.
You just don't want it to be a life, so you don't have to face the reality that you're killing something. The semantics that the extreme-pro-abortion people go through to sugarcoat abortion and dehumanize the unborn would be laughable if it wasn't so sad, coldhearted, and pathetic.
Plants and weeds are not dead, I hope you say a prayer every time you do your lawn. A tick is alive while it's feeding off your blood as well, I guess you should just leave it there and let it do it's thing.
 
Old 06-18-2008, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Scranton
2,940 posts, read 3,967,807 times
Reputation: 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtoli View Post
Plants and weeds are not dead, I hope you say a prayer every time you do your lawn. A tick is alive while it's feeding off your blood as well, I guess you should just leave it there and let it do it's thing.

That tells me all that I need to know about you in that you compare a human being to a weed or a tick.

Sad.
 
Old 06-18-2008, 09:17 AM
 
Location: NJ/NY
10,655 posts, read 18,663,385 times
Reputation: 2829
A tick cannot live without the sustinence of another's blood. A fetus cannot survive without the sustinence of a woman's body before viability.

Define: Human Being.

Is a sperm a human being? It could become a baby
Is an egg a human being? It could become a baby
Is a frozen embryo a human being? It could become a baby
 
Old 06-18-2008, 09:27 AM
 
8,185 posts, read 12,639,025 times
Reputation: 2893
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtoli View Post
A tick cannot live without the sustinence of another's blood. A fetus cannot survive without the sustinence of a woman's body before viability.

Define: Human Being.

Is a sperm a human being? It could become a baby
Is an egg a human being? It could become a baby
Is a frozen embryo a human being? It could become a baby
Oh, now you are just being facetious!
Does a tick have human dna?
Does a sperm have internal organs?
Does a frozen embryo have a beating heart?

And you complain that pro lifers use emotional rhetoric!

Since you volunteer at a clinic that performs late term abortions, I would advise you to ask to see the 'uterine contents'. Its not a blob of tissue (well, unless the baby was sliced, diced and pureed) nor is it a tick nor is it abnormally large sperm. It has a face, it has fingerprints unique to that individual and it has or should I say had a fully functioning body that would include organs and a brain and all the parts that you have. The only difference is that it is dependent on another person for a time. Although an argument could be made that nursing babies are parasites --- can we retroactively abort them? Or does the ability to breathe independently equate with life in your book?
 
Old 06-18-2008, 09:31 AM
 
Location: NJ/NY
10,655 posts, read 18,663,385 times
Reputation: 2829
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
Oh, now you are just being facetious!
Does a tick have human dna?
Does a sperm have internal organs?
Does a frozen embryo have a beating heart?

And you complain that pro lifers use emotional rhetoric!

Since you volunteer at a clinic that performs late term abortions, I would advise you to ask to see the 'uterine contents'. Its not a blob of tissue (well, unless the baby was sliced, diced and pureed) nor is it a tick nor is it abnormally large sperm. It has a face, it has fingerprints unique to that Iindividual and it has or should I say had a fully functioning body that would include organs and a brain and all the parts that you have. The only difference is that it is dependent on another person for a time. Although an argument could be made that nursing babies are parasites --- can we retroactively abort them? Or does the ability to breathe independently equate with life in your book?
I no longer volunteer at the clinic btw - that was a few years ago.

I hate to break it to you, but the "uterine contents" do not have faces, nor fingerprints. They are simply jars of blood and tissue. The only time they are not is if a "partial birth" abortion is performed. The procedure that many are trying to ban is really most commonly used in cases of fetal defect, where the woman would like an intact fetus to bury/mourn, etc.

Nursing babies are not parasites, they can be passed onto another person to stay alive. As far as I know, we are not performing fetal transplants at this point, so one, and only one person has control of the fetus, the person carrying it.

The problem is, you are dictating what another should do with their body and life. At the point an abortion is performed, you cannot put another person in charge of carrying that baby to term, hence my comparison to a parasite. Might be a little to blunt for some, but take out the emotional aspect to the debate, and that's what you have.

The question at task is, "When Does Life Begin?". Various people have various positions on the subject, some influenced by science, some influenced by religion. If you have a differing view, then it is your choice to not have an abortion.
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