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I no longer volunteer at the clinic btw - that was a few years ago.
I hate to break it to you, but the "uterine contents" do not have faces, nor fingerprints. They are simply jars of blood and tissue. If the woman instead went into premature labor, the fetus would not survive.
Nursing babies are not parasites, they can be passed onto another person to stay alive. As far as I know, we are not performing fetal transplants at this point, so one, and only one person has control of the fetus, the person carrying it.
Really? Premature babies are just globs of tissue and blood? Or is the reality that the contents of those jars did have faces and fingerprints until the 'prodedure' is done?
It looks sto me that with the advent of ultrasound and medical technology that allows premature babies to survive is the doom of abortionists. How easy it was back in the day to call a fetus 'a lump of tissue no bigger then a peanut' when now we can see said peanut has a beating heart. That is science and that is fact. It still can't live on its own, but it is not a mass of tissue and blood. Well, not until the abortion anyways. Still, abortionist rhetoric is wrong. Your rhetoric is wrong.
Really? Premature babies are just globs of tissue and blood? Or is the reality that the contents of those jars did have faces and fingerprints until the 'prodedure' is done?
It looks sto me that with the advent of ultrasound and medical technology that allows premature babies to survive is the doom of abortionists. How easy it was back in the day to call a fetus 'a lump of tissue no bigger then a peanut' when now we can see said peanut has a beating heart. That is science and that is fact. It still can't live on its own, but it is not a mass of tissue and blood. Well, not until the abortion anyways. Still, abortionist rhetoric is wrong. Your rhetoric is wrong.
I'm just being straightforward about what is expelled after an abortion. It is tissue and blood, unless a "partial birth" abortion is performed.
At the point of time that most abortions are performed, yes, a fetus is a lump of tissue about the size of a peanut. The heart will not beat without the sustinence of the woman. Sure, faces develop, arms and legs develop later in pregnancy. The fact of the matter is that fetus could not survive without the woman carrying it, which leaves the choice to her. Once that fetus is viable on it's own, it is then past the time where abortion is acceptable.
Slapping on a condom hardly equates with late term abortion.....I'm just saying.
You're right...you are 'just saying'. Nothing but hot air. Fortunately, <newtoli> has already thrown the numbers at you, so I'll just note that your leap to late-term abortion is an utter charade. These are already highly regulated, and in yet another example of your great compassion for women and families facing the personal tragedy of a failed pregnancy, you all have made the safest, cheapest, and least emotionally damaging means for it illegal. Nice work there. One of these days, you myopics might want to wake up to the fact that human reproduction is a sloppy, disorganized, and haphazard process that regularly and reliably goes off the rails. Your reaction to those who find themselves facing such a dire situation is to ignore them. Pretend that they don't exist. Pretending is indeed how you create your very definition of reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping!
Unless you are saying your wife had 23 late term abortions?
The Pill and later IUD's as if any of it were any of your business at all. We don't know how many times a conceptus was aborted on account of those, of course. We know only that our rights to control our own reproductive histories -- to be or not to be pregnant at times of our own choosing -- were upheld. We actually preferred that to being told what to do by a bunch of holy-rolling airheads and wingnuts.
Imagine that...
Pretend that they don't exist. Pretending is indeed how you create your very definition of reality.
That's a reasonably accurate description of the Pro-Death side's view of the murder of the unborn. Looks like "pretending" figures in just about eveyone's definition of reality, innit?
It looks sto me that with the advent of ultrasound and medical technology that allows premature babies to survive is the doom of abortionists. How easy it was back in the day to call a fetus 'a lump of tissue no bigger then a peanut' when now we can see said peanut has a beating heart. That is science and that is fact. It still can't live on its own, but it is not a mass of tissue and blood. Well, not until the abortion anyways. Still, abortionist rhetoric is wrong. Your rhetoric is wrong.
Your scientific literacy here is a bit lacking. Pretty big bit, actually. One among many delusions that the disinformed suffer from is that they view a zygote, embryo, or fetus as being a two-and-a-half-year-old toddler with the zoom factor set at 2%. At a gestational age when women confronting an unwanted pregnancy will start contacting clinics, that "beating heart" of yours is incompletely formed, connected to no circulatory system at all, and is located approximately where a mouth would be, if only there were one of those.
You're right...you are 'just saying'. Nothing but hot air. Fortunately, <newtoli> has already thrown the numbers at you, so I'll just note that your leap to late-term abortion is an utter charade. These are already highly regulated, and in yet another example of your great compassion for women and families facing the personal tragedy of a failed pregnancy, you all have made the safest, cheapest, and least emotionally damaging means for it illegal. Nice work there. One of these days, you myopics might want to wake up to the fact that human reproduction is a sloppy, disorganized, and haphazard process that regularly and reliably goes off the rails. Your reaction to those who find themselves facing such a dire situation is to ignore them. Pretend that they don't exist. Pretending is indeed how you create your very definition of reality.
I have had 5 miscarriages between one month to 6 months in length. I assure you I intimately know just how messy reproduction is. I also intimately got to know my daughter via ultrasound as she took about a month a half to die. Yep -- just me living life with blinders on!
And just where do you get the idea that I want to prevent all forms of abortion and birth control? Or better yet, that I believe the two to be one and the same? I don't.
The Pill and later IUD's as if any of it were any of your business at all. We don't know how many times a conceptus was aborted on account of those, of course. We know only that our rights to control our own reproductive histories -- to be or not to be pregnant at times of our own choosing -- were upheld. We actually preferred that to being told what to do by a bunch of holy-rolling airheads and wingnuts.
Imagine that...
Hey, your method of bc is not my business, but I wasn't the one bragging about it either. Holy rolling airhead and wingnut? Moi?! Not likely.
Here, let me let you in on a little secret ---not everybody can be lumped together under ridiculous labels. See, I am against all abortions past the first trimester. While I find any abortion repugnant I do see that they will always be legal so I am for making them safer. I am for the morning after pill. I am against the death penalty (although in theory I do see the need for certain people to die, nonetheless if there is a chance that one innocent person would ever be put to death the whole system should not be allowed). I am for gay marriage. I am against illegal immigration. I am conflicted about the legalization of drugs, mainly because I can't see our government being able to handle it. I recycle but I drive an SUV (6 cyl, but still) I am agnostic but I will defend anyone of any faith if I feel that they are being mocked or bullied because of their faith. Religion, though has no place in government or schools or anywhere but in an individuals life.
See, I may not agree with you on this, but I imagine that we may agree in other areas. People are more then a bumper sticker statement, and they are the sum of their experiences. Maybe in college people are more two dimentionial, but life has a way of changing that. So please, don't do yourself the disfavor of thinking in terms of 'us against them' and 'red vs blue' its all crap.
That's a reasonably accurate description of the Pro-Death side's view of the murder of the unborn. Looks like "pretending" figures in just about eveyone's definition of reality, innit?
Your view -- which is all that it is -- is predicated on principles that you cannot establish. That you think or believe something to be true is all the standard that needs to be met in your own mind. When you start talking to me (or to anyone else), you will need to bring just a little extra along with you. You don't, unfortunately, have anything extra. Just your thoughts and beliefs...
Your scientific literacy here is a bit lacking. Pretty big bit, actually. One among many delusions that the disinformed suffer from is that they view a zygote, embryo, or fetus as being a two-and-a-half-year-old toddler with the zoom factor set at 2%. At a gestational age when women confronting an unwanted pregnancy will start contacting clinics, that "beating heart" of yours is incompletely formed, connected to no circulatory system at all, and is located approximately where a mouth would be, if only there were one of those.
Yes, you are right. But it is also unfair to say that it is just a blob of blood and tissue with no more connection to an independent human life then a some sperm left on a tissue.
I am not saying, nor have I ever said that a zygote is a toddler (see how people on both sides of this debate start making rash and embarrasingly inaccurate assumptions about one another?). My point was that a fetus, hell a zygote is not sperm. Nor is it an egg. Nor is it a fertilized egg. It is other. And that is something you do not want to admit.
The fact of the matter is, that late term abortions account for 1% of the total. These are performed for complicated reasons that no one except for the woman affected would understand. They are involved, expensive procedures that women do not just run out and get over and over. I believe that an abortion before viability is the same, whether or not it's performed at 5 weeks, or 22. Anything else is advocating forced birth.
It is not a life prior to viability.
It's a life if the mother wants it. It's a life in courts of law if someone kills it. It has a heartbeat. It's alive. It is a life.
I no longer volunteer at the clinic btw - that was a few years ago.
I hate to break it to you, but the "uterine contents" do not have faces, nor fingerprints. They are simply jars of blood and tissue. The only time they are not is if a "partial birth" abortion is performed. The procedure that many are trying to ban is really most commonly used in cases of fetal defect, where the woman would like an intact fetus to bury/mourn, etc.
Nursing babies are not parasites, they can be passed onto another person to stay alive. As far as I know, we are not performing fetal transplants at this point, so one, and only one person has control of the fetus, the person carrying it.
The problem is, you are dictating what another should do with their body and life. At the point an abortion is performed, you cannot put another person in charge of carrying that baby to term, hence my comparison to a parasite. Might be a little to blunt for some, but take out the emotional aspect to the debate, and that's what you have.
The question at task is, "When Does Life Begin?". Various people have various positions on the subject, some influenced by science, some influenced by religion. If you have a differing view, then it is your choice to not have an abortion.
Bodies do not put out the welcome mat for "parasites". The body does everything it can to nourish, protect and develop a baby. Bodies do not do that for "parasites". The body clearly welcomes and assist the baby at every point to thrive. The body is doing it's business, reproduction being part of that business. There is no welcome mat for parasites.
Last edited by laysayfair; 06-18-2008 at 11:15 AM..
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