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Rggr at no time have I said return money or suggested that congress solve oil industry problems, because its way over their heads. Get over myself? You know I'm just really very frustrated at people walking past the crime ignoring it, satisfying themselves with simplistic cause/effect sales pitch or blaming all the wrong people. This will only get worse if its not hit at the root.
My point is this- they (oil industry & ancillary industries upstream) give themselves raises across the board everytime the price of oil goes up. There is no incentive for oil to ever go down even when supply is high. Naturally OPEC will reduce supply if demand goes down, but the supplies were being hoarded in loaded ships off the coast of iran to create the appearance of artificial shortages. They're hedging. They're steadily racheting it up with jawbone tactics. They're practicing runnup marketing (off season I might add).
They're also operating collusively, because they're rewarded mightily for doing so in an internationally unregulated environment where no arm of the law can really reach them with meaningful consequences. Right now, the entire oil industry is enjoying not a true free market, but a monopoly, because of how they've played the game all along. The market is cornered every which way deliberately.
Among the most guilty for this situation is the american citizen and american govt for permitting oil dependence to so comprehensively control our economy across all sectors. Were we diversified in energy sources, and 30+ yrs of r & d for renewables were pursued in earnest, we wouldn't be seeing this mess now. People & our gov't are still denying any responsibility for this inbred marketplace we've got.
My point is not necessarily in disagreement with yours. You say simple supply/demand is too simplisitc, and you're right. My point was that the political talking point of oil company profits and price gouging is too simplistic (I don't think I said that was your position; if so, I'm sorry for mischaracterizing your point). I would not be surprised if the speculators etc. were doing things that are unethical because the industry is not transparent. At the same time, I have no hard evidence to convict anyone. As you stated, I do know that the government has not done a thing to make us independent, and I think that has been a failure of both parties. Given that I know and can see thier ineffectiveness, I have focused more of my attention on them.
Not far off. national debt, trade deficit, insolvency of SS... repubs have been acting like drunken frat boys. It's got to end.
Congressional dems right now are having trouble seeing the forrest from the trees. We need comprehensive mgmt and they hack at things piecemeal. Worse, half the aisle goes one direction, the other pulls the opposite, and nothing gets done at all.
My point is not necessarily in disagreement with yours. You say simple supply/demand is too simplisitc, and you're right. My point was that the political talking point of oil company profits and price gouging is too simplistic (I don't think I said that was your position; if so, I'm sorry for mischaracterizing your point). I would not be surprised if the speculators etc. were doing things that are unethical because the industry is not transparent. At the same time, I have no hard evidence to convict anyone. As you stated, I do know that the government has not done a thing to make us independent, and I think that has been a failure of both parties. Given that I know and can see thier ineffectiveness, I have focused more of my attention on them.
Rggr the way these scams go on, there isn't a fingerprint to grasp onto. I wish the records of price spike trading to be supeona'd, lets name names, lets follow where the checks are cashed, but they're cloaked in multiple levels of nations/traders/ corporate names so it won't register. This is so over our own governments head- it's beyond their jurisdiction. Reign this in would require international cooperation.
Here's my impression of international cooperation. If the UN votes on coffee break being at 1030, invariably there will be a 5 week debate with dissenters being contrarian for cheap applause.
The real action our govt can take alone is be energy independant, and we've got to insist on it. Chasing after international ghosts still hasn't caught osama yet, has it?
Rggr the way these scams go on, there isn't a fingerprint to grasp onto. I wish the records of price spike trading to be supeona'd, lets name names, lets follow where the checks are cashed, but they're cloaked in multiple levels of nations/traders/ corporate names so it won't register. This is so over our own governments head- it's beyond their jurisdiction. Reign this in would require international cooperation.
I can agree with that. There is no transparency and it's an international market etc. That's one more reason, among many, why the grandstanding in Congress is a joke.
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Originally Posted by harborlady
Here's my impression of international cooperation. If the UN votes on coffee break being at 1030, invariably there will be a 5 week debate with dissenters being contrarian for cheap applause.
Indeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady
The real action our govt can take alone is be energy independant, and we've got to insist on it. Chasing after international ghosts still hasn't caught osama yet, has it?
I could not agree more. We need to be independent. I think the hearings about oil prices are chasing ghosts (that may be what you meant).
So, I've been reading bits and pieces of how gas prices are just messing up this country of ours, since they're simply going nowhere but up and up and up and up. And I can't figure out why. What is to blame for this? Who should we point the finger at for this?
Yep. The US has had 35 years since the Arab oil embargo to deal with this issue and failed miserably. All those brain dead SUV owners did more than their share to run up the price of gasoline too, the US uses close to 400 million gallons of gasoline every day so you can't expect it to be cheap forever.
Europeans pay much more for gasoline than we do thanks to a 75% tax on it and they drive vehicles that are more fuel efficient than ours and they drive them less.
All those brain dead SUV owners did more than their share to run up the price of gasoline too, the US uses close to 400 million gallons of gasoline every day so you can't expect it to be cheap forever.
I don't get the great big popularity of SUVs anyway. And I'm not expecting gas to be exactly cheap, but neither am I expecting it to be priced so outrageously.
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Europeans pay much more for gasoline than we do thanks to a 75% tax on it and they drive vehicles that are more fuel efficient than ours and they drive them less.
They're lucky. At least they care about efficiency.
No luck about it. They paid attention, saw the writing on the wall, and invested time/energy into solving problems in a somewhat unified way. We trucked along, unified by limited market choices herding us into fat, dumb, and happy.
The only genuine need SUV's serve is contractors with a small crew or to those in rural america who have terrain instead of highways to contend with regularly. 4wd is not optional in those areas, but a modest subaru could have done the job.
I don't envy people who had them when they were popular, and I don't envy them being stuck with them now. Perhaps technology will allow for engine modifications in a cost effective way? Status symbols are very foolish IMO, but so long as I don't pay for it, my opinion is irrelevant.
We allowed this current administration to hamstring the state of california when they were advancing green initiatives via establishing an electric car market for automakers. One step up and 3 steps back. Antithetical to the 'free market' defense right uses, except when defending traditional auto/oil industries.
We the people need to take responsibility/ control of this with our vote and our investments into technology. Not just the car you drive, but your other investment abilities. I put my money where my mouth was & my 401k is doing better than most as a result. I will not be an enemy of my country's health by feeding addiction policies.
We the people need to take responsibility/ control of this with our vote and our investments into technology. Not just the car you drive, but your other investment abilities. I put my money where my mouth was & my 401k is doing better than most as a result.
How do we do that?
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