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Old 07-24-2008, 05:26 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,783,759 times
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Every nation that has ever gone to war has committed war crimes. I consider bombing cities and unrestricted submarine warfare to be criminal for instance.
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Old 07-24-2008, 05:50 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
1) Name some countries that have not committed war crimes. Bhutan, perhaps.
2) Torture, as the US has also taken part of, is equal. Tell that to the people being tortured, and their families. You forgot our atrocities in Vietnam, Mai Lai, perhaps. How about napalming villages? How about bombing Cambodia and Lao?
3) It's a difference in scale, not in the effect it had on the people tortured, or their families.
4) I don't see a difference. As a pacifist, I believe that war crimes are all atrocious. Are you saying that our war crimes are ok because someone else performed worse war crimes?
5) No, saying that we've done it too is simply the truth. People who live in glass houses, etc.
1) If you accept that nations that have recently been founded haven't committed war crimes, there have been quite a few. Most nations in the Pacific and Caribbean for instance. If you don't and follow that if a nation has had violence in its history, even if the nation in question didn't actually exist (a kind of historical original sin), then there is absolutely nothing that can be criticized ever.

2) I agree with your assessment of Abu Grahib. However I have disagreement with much of what you said about the Vietnam War. My Lai was not part of official policy and a number of Marines and soldiers struggled for quite sometime for the actions of Lt. Calley and others to be punished. The bombing of Cambodia was in response the North Vietnamese Army violating Cambodia's sovereignty and Cambodia's unwillingness to deal with North Vietnamese troops inside its borders. Since Cambodia seemed to not be bothered with another nation conducting military operations on its soil, I can hardly see how the United States is the bad guy for sending troops into Cambodia and launching bombing raids against North Vietnamese troop movements inside Cambodia.

3) Many, many more people were tortured and mistreated by the Japanese than Americans. The Japanese intentionally killed more people in Nanking alone than the US has in Iraq. Plus there were all those rapes and other acts of torture.

4) Not at all. However some things considered war crimes might have an overall positive effect. For instance, I find the atomic bombings on Hiroshima and Nagasaki perfectly acceptable because they ultimately ended a war which would have only killed many more people. I find the fire bombings of Tokyo and Dresden to be far more horrifying than the use of the atomic bombs. Also, I am less judgmental when both both sides did it. Both the Axis and Allies bombed each others cities, while horrifying and not something I condone, I understand that it was something both sides did.

5) Glass house, eh? I have a saying that I would like to quote: "The only true measure of intelligence is the ability to understand subtly and appreciate complexity"
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Old 07-24-2008, 12:41 PM
 
994 posts, read 1,544,695 times
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The other major partners of the Axis, namely Germany and Japan, have been roundly condemned for their war crimes, but curiously Italy is never mentioned, even though they commited genocide against Ethiopia, killing over a million.

The Ethiopian Holocaust 1935-1941: Italy's War Crimes in Ethiopia
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Old 07-24-2008, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,165,825 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
Every nation that has ever gone to war has committed war crimes. I consider bombing cities and unrestricted submarine warfare to be criminal for instance.
I don't. I think it's good policy, as well as morally, legally and ethically correct.

If I tell you I'm going to murder someone, and you give me a gun to use, you're an accessory before, during and after the fact, and you're guilty of complicity.

If I tell you I'm going to invade another country, and you give me tax dollars to finance the war and provide me with war matériel, then you're an accessory before, during and after the fact, and you're complicit.

You do not escape liability or punishment by clicking your ruby red slippers together 3 times while chanting, "I'm a non-combatant."

If burning civilians with white phosphorus and ripping them to pieces with fleshettes will keep them from paying taxes to finance the war or building tanks, planes or weapons, then that's what I'll do.
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Old 07-24-2008, 06:34 PM
 
Location: The Lakes Region
3,074 posts, read 4,725,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
I don't. I think it's good policy, as well as morally, legally and ethically correct.

If I tell you I'm going to murder someone, and you give me a gun to use, you're an accessory before, during and after the fact, and you're guilty of complicity.

If I tell you I'm going to invade another country, and you give me tax dollars to finance the war and provide me with war matériel, then you're an accessory before, during and after the fact, and you're complicit.

You do not escape liability or punishment by clicking your ruby red slippers together 3 times while chanting, "I'm a non-combatant."

If burning civilians with white phosphorus and ripping them to pieces with fleshettes will keep them from paying taxes to finance the war or building tanks, planes or weapons, then that's what I'll do.
I believe Stonewall Jackson shared the same philosophy as you.
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Old 07-24-2008, 11:09 PM
 
3,210 posts, read 4,613,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
What the heck are you talking about.
Please point me to where I said that, ever. Otherwise, keep your lying to yourself.
All countries commit war crimes.
We don't have to look past our own military to find them.
We need to clean up our own house before we throw stones at others.

If that's liberal, I'm proud to be one.

And Frank, try getting it right, no need to put words in my mouth, I can speak for myself.

Not once have you ever critized a country other than America/Europe. Also, speaking to the glass houses comment, if a three year old steals a cookie from the cookie jar, is he like Willie Sutton? I guess he should go to Federal Prision then, right? It's called prespective, there is a different magnititude and intent to what Japan did and what the US did. Both wrong? Yes. But not even in the same league.


Hell, according to your view, we should never have stood up to Hitler at all. After all, killing is killing, right?
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Old 07-25-2008, 03:01 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,282,339 times
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Killing is killing, that's right.
The families hurt all the same.
The injustice is all the same.
That's correct.

Your example of comparing a 3-year old to an adult is about as absurd as I've read today.
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Old 07-25-2008, 02:25 PM
 
Location: wrong planet
5,168 posts, read 11,438,772 times
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Please let us discuss the topic and not other posters!
Thank you
__________________
The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for it. ~Henry David Thoreau


forum rules, please read them
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Old 07-25-2008, 09:42 PM
 
1,474 posts, read 2,299,945 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katzenfreund View Post
Please let us discuss the topic and not other posters!
Thank you
ok.......................................
but it did feel good..........................
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Old 07-25-2008, 10:13 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,221,236 times
Reputation: 6553
To answer the op question.
Yes Japan did.
Bataan death march.
Might as well say the entire campaign in China.
And many many more examples including the things they did to the filipino people.
This topic is not about what other countries did. It asks did Japan commit war crimes. Or Did Japanese war crimes really occur.
The answer is yes.
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