Were Native Americans the victims of Genocide by the United States of America? (atrocities, government)

[Tin Knocker]

I wonder if theres a country anywhere on earth that isn't inhabited by people that displaced another group to get there. This is silly.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by Tin Knocker

I wonder if theres a country anywhere on earth that isn't inhabited by people that displaced another group to get there. This is silly.

Greenland. Iceland. Give me some time to think and I'll come up with a few more.

[bdoon]

Mu friend to quote one passage from one book hardly is documentation. Tribes were extewrminated...a collection of Native Americans does not make a tribe anymore that if you ttook everyone in Paterson, NJ and put them in a camp under a set of foreign rules and regulations, economy etc. You can hardly call the reservations "tribes " or Native Lands". I suggest you visit some reservations and compare that with what you have read.

Sure they encroached on each other but no tribe , not even the Aztec or Inca had anywhere near the power of the European onslaught over the centuries. As you rightly point out much of the intertribal warfare was not aimed so much at destruction as taking people ...todays slave is tomorrow's tribal member.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by bdoon

Mu friend to quote one passage from one book hardly is documentation. Tribes were extewrminated...

...by other Native American tribes. You can't name a single tribe exterminated by British, French, Dutch or German colonists, because there are none.

Originally Posted by bdoon

..a collection of Native Americans does not make a tribe anymore that if you ttook everyone in Paterson, NJ and put them in a camp under a set of foreign rules and regulations, economy etc. You can hardly call the reservations "tribes " or Native Lands". I suggest you visit some reservations and compare that with what you have read.

You need to study more.

Native American tribes had distinct languages and customs. That's what makes them tribes. We are quite fortunate that the language of several Native American tribes exterminated by other Native American tribes was persevered on recording media between the late 1800s and the early 1900s.

Unfortunately, in one case for a tribe exterminated by other Native Americans we have only the voice of the last tribe member speaking his language. Since he did not speak English and did not speak any other Native American languages and no other Native Americans understand his language, no one is able to translate the recording.

In other cases where Native American tribes were exterminated by other Native American tribes, at least we have a lexicon to compare with other Native American languages.

Originally Posted by bdoon

Sure they encroached on each other but no tribe , not even the Aztec or Inca had anywhere near the power of the European onslaught over the centuries.

The Aztecs and Incas exterminated or absorbed tribes they conquered.

[bdoon]

My friend you need to study King Phillips War or almost any conflict / plague where Europeans decimated tribes...they may not have killed every individual but the tribes ceased to exist as units within a generation or two. Tribes were wiped before the Pilgrims even landed by European borne plagues. No one even contemplated attacking the larger tribes until the Europeans arrived abd were available as allies with their firearms.

Also languages and customs do not make a tribe...many tribes spoke the same or similar languages and had virtually identical culture. But they were distinct political units. Anyone of the Iroqouis tribes in the 6 Nations is an example....I don't know what you are reading but I do not buy what you are selling...it is contradictory to reality.

[rxpwas]

There were atrocities both ways, that's for sure, but one fact remains...the Indians were here first. Incidentally, concerning Thanksgiving, I like it myself, love being with my family and giving thanks to Jesus Christ and eating, and eating, and eating, but history of Pilgrims is sort of grim, and they were not a grateful bunch. You have a bunch of starving and freezing Pilgrims at mercy of locals in Massachussets who could have done 'em in any time they wanted to, but instead, thanks to Sqaunto and Massasoit (and all the rest there) saved their fannies and taught them how live in American wilderness. Much to be thankful for there. However, not too many years later, these same "Puritans" decided that the Indians there were heathens and pagans and needed to be obliterated, or at least submit to them on their knees. These same "grateful" and "thankful" souls not only tried to kill off the Indians, they weren't much better to their own people, burning them as witches, etc. What grattitude!
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[Memphis1979]

Knowing some of the things that have happened to American Indians, yeah, we committed genocide. I say we, because I'm mostly Anglo, however, I do have some Cherokee in me as well.

Wounded Knee, just as one stand out example.

[bdoon]

Originally Posted by Irishtom29

I find myself in bad company defending The United States against the charge of genocide.

I'll make something clear; I don't think any reasonable person can deny that the Indians were invaded and conquered and were the victims of gross injustice. I don't make light of what was done to them nor do I deny they had the right to defend themselves and their territory.But I don't think they were victims of genocide. Victims of war, conquest, disease and neglect yes.

However, and this is a big however, I was born here and here is where I'll stay.

So you are an Irish Mom? in Chicago (I lived 3 blocks west of Wrigley Field as well as on the block of N Sheffield just north of Wrigly- for 4 years) Elizabeth and her Dad Henry the 8th made war on the Catholic Irish fearing their Catholicism would aid Spain...but after the English Civil War, the Puritans/Oliver Cromwell carried on active extermination of Irish Cartholics so protestants from Scotland could be settled there. Many scholars believe the English (and later American ) model for dealing with First Nation tribes was developed in Ireland by the English. It makes sense.

However, following the French and Indian War the English actually tried to keep the Euros east of the Appalachins so they would not have to get involved in constant warfare with the Indians. It did not work. The colonists wanted land and the English attempt at control of land development was one of the causes of the Revolution. The new Americans made the English look like gross amateurs in the theft of land from Native Americans.Some smart lawyer could go back over all the treaties signed by the US Gov with Indians and make a fortune suing over treaty violations.

Sure Indians were violent and raised to be ultra-cruel , some tribes actively practiced cannabilism...but Euros back then were no slouches when it came to violence and cruelty either. Big difference is that the Euros were not defending their ancestral lands...they were the agressors always. Pocohantas should have cut off John Smith's head and the Indians should have eaten the English for Thanksgiving!

[Domination83]

No.

They just disappeared. It's called magic.

[Bulldawg82]

ALL people are desperately wicked and have exercised that wickedness to the best of their abilities. No tribe, people, ethnic, or race is innocent. Not a single one.