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There are no smoke and mirrors here. The obligation is 8 years. Whether he does 4 years or 6 years active duty or 8, it has to add up to 8. That's the drill. That's the deal for signing up. I knew full well although I was discharged right before Desert Storm in the early 90's, that I could be recalled and I fully expected to be. This man has no sympathy from me.
First i wouldnt say he is a traitor, he has been deployed, so thats harsh. I will say you sign up for a TOTAL of eight years as everyone has said. When i signed up they told me a MEPS 4-5 times this is total of eight years. He should show up and go, it may stink but he signed the contract.
I really don't think it's harsh when you look at the definition.
"1 : one who betrays another's trust or is false to an obligation or duty"
Isn't that exactly what is happening? His past history has nothing to do with his current willingness to withhold his obligation.
Not necessarily. Whether he is paid or not, receives training or not, gets bennies or not depends on whether he is in active drill status or IRR (Individual Ready Reserve). If he is in active drill status, he plays in his branch once a month - a weekend, usually, being paid a full day's pay for each four-hour period of "training" or attendance, gets free medical and dental, gets access to the base exchange and/or commissary and the gas station - and also performs a minimum of 12 days active duty training at a place where he can garner the needed training to keep his skills sharp. Even if he is in IRR, he can still participate in a limited manner by doing correspondence courses to get "points" that will accumulate toward a possible future retirement from the reserve side of the house.
There is more, a whole lot more to the reserves than what appears on the surface. You would do well to look a little deeper to be able to effectively criticize.
This person is on IRR not RR and as such they are not gaining time in grade, nor are they weekend warriors. He may have gotten a bonus, but that is it. There is a huge difference between the RR and IRR. But as I said, he is obligated to serve.
I agree he needs to live up to the contract. On the other hand the deck is stacked against the individual soldier because the Army can stop gap and play shell games to unilaterally extend a guy beyond his contract.
This person is on IRR not RR and as such they are not gaining time in grade, nor are they weekend warriors. He may have gotten a bonus, but that is it. There is a huge difference between the RR and IRR. But as I said, he is obligated to serve.
I know that, the difference between IRR and RR. I was one, once upon a time. As I wrote, IRR can still do correspondence courses, and on rare occasion request and receive a training duty for two weeks, but no, they are not paid. I was just making comparisons.
I know that, the difference between IRR and RR. I was one, once upon a time. As I wrote, IRR can still do correspondence courses, and on rare occasion request and receive a training duty for two weeks, but no, they are not paid. I was just making comparisons.
As a contractor, I work with lots of IRR and RR and RR on active duty, etc, etc. My point was not on this particular individual, but rather on a system that allows us to lay off soldiers and not provide for their welfare, but then allows us to pull them back when we wish. I do not dispute it is legal or that the young man needs to go through all the appeals processes available to him, just that the system in general seems a bit skewed for this particular war. You would do well to look a little deeper to be able to effectively criticize.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,655,470 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueWillowPlate
US soldier refuses to report for active duty in Iraq (broken link) Matthis Chiroux was honorably discharged last year, and placed in the Individual Ready Reserves (IRR), a pool of former soldiers who can be "reactivated" in a national emergency or war. Chiroux served five years in the army, with tours in Afghanistan, Japan, Germany and the Philippines.
Now he is being called up again, and refuses to go. Chiroux's father calls the IRR a "backdoor draft."
There is an Exemption program, but I don't think this is what Chiroux is suggesting.
I am of two minds about this. When someone considers signing on with the military, it is up to that person to think long and hard about this decision--and make it an informed decision, which includes any fine print concerning an 8-year mandatory service obligation.
OTOH
I've heard stories about what can go on in recruiting. Those guys were hanging around my younger son's high school all the time, chatting up 16-17 year olds.
Chiroux has already served, and served honorably. He cannot in *good* conscience take part in what is going on there, so he is making a stand.
What is going to happen to Chiroux?
What should happen?
I don't blame him for being pissed off but he must report for duty as ordered. When you join- at least the USAF- it is made very clear to you what your terms and obligations are (straight 6 and out or 4 active, 2 reserve and 2 ready reserve). You are expected to follow the terms of your enlistment. This is a promise you make in order to enjoy the training and benefits the armed services give to you.
What do I think should happen? He should, at the very least, lose any benefits has remaining and his Honourable should be downgraded to a General with honourable conditions. That is what I would do. But the decision is up to the military.
I will just say this- when somebody signs that paper, it ought to mean something. It is a commitment that should be kept. You did not sign up to only serve in peacetime or in wars you think are "acceptable". You do not get to make that decsion. If anybody feels they cannot meet the obligations of service, they should not sign up. It is called "service" for a reason. It is not a jobs program or a training school. If you want to "learn electronics" with no obligations, there are trade schools for that.
While I might be 100% opposed to Iraq- as I was Veitnam- when I put that uniform on, it meant I went where I was ordered and did as I was told regardless of my personal views.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,655,470 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobolt
There are no smoke and mirrors here. The obligation is 8 years. Whether he does 4 years or 6 years active duty or 8, it has to add up to 8. That's the drill. That's the deal for signing up. I knew full well although I was discharged right before Desert Storm in the early 90's, that I could be recalled and I fully expected to be. This man has no sympathy from me.
When I joined in 1977 if you did 6 active, you did not have to do the reserve time. Of course that was in peace time and they were trying to cut the budget.
I really don't think it's harsh when you look at the definition.
"1 : one who betrays another's trust or is false to an obligation or duty"
Isn't that exactly what is happening? His past history has nothing to do with his current willingness to withhold his obligation.
I view a traitor as if he joined the Taliban or gave secrets info to the Iran. He has deployed so in my eyes he is just some one who is seeking a Dishonorable discharge, which once you get that good luck trying to get any kind of job or anything.
As a contractor, I work with lots of IRR and RR and RR on active duty, etc, etc. My point was not on this particular individual, but rather on a system that allows us to lay off soldiers and not provide for their welfare, but then allows us to pull them back when we wish. I do not dispute it is legal or that the young man needs to go through all the appeals processes available to him, just that the system in general seems a bit skewed for this particular war. You would do well to look a little deeper to be able to effectively criticize.
You would do well to know that while I was a reservist, the last 16 years I did, I worked for the reserves, on active duty. I do know what I'm talking about. There usta be a division of the Naval Reserve program called Training and Administration of Reserves, wherein the folks who were designated to work in that field (TARs) did the leg work for the reserves. The program has been reabsorbed into the regular Navy now.
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