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Demystified? You are giving racism too much credit by making it sound like it's some sort of great phenomena. Racism itself is rather simple; hatred or practices of hatred of people not like yourself. The KKK are racist, but they also hated Catholics and Jews. Why? Because the people they hated weren't like them. That's all.
There's no denying that racism was abundant in the 50's and 60's, a lot moreso than today. While racism exists today, it's nowhere near as prevalent compared to back then. However, there are practices today that should be called racist but aren't; in fact, these practices are actually considered a "good thing" or my favorite word "progressive".
For example, where I used to work there was a huge push for diversity. I would like to know why my company, which tied a "diversity score" to our bonuses, feels the need to push for the hiring of more minorities when the total % of minority employees at that time was 55%. Minorities in management roles at that time was 44%. The company, under the guise of diversity, is practicing racism in that it is hiring people based on the color of their skin. We certainly weren't bringing in white males anymore. This is racism as well. This is also white guilt and you are correct that this institutional racism needs to be understood. The problem is nobody will ever understand it because everyone seems to have it all wrong.
Tell me something, are you going to vote for Obama because he is black? If so, you are being a racist. No different than those that vote for McCain because he is white and they don't want a black, er interracial, President. Don't worry though, I'm sure Obama will get the "white guilt" bloc vote just as McCain will get the KKK vote. Sad but true.
Wasn't it a black man who said that he couldn't wait for the day where his children were judged not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character?? Well, while his children have all the opportunities today that he didn't have back in the 60's, Martin Luther King is still going to have to wait for his children to be judged by their character and not color of their skin. I guess if he were alive today, he wouldn't be happy with HOW progress was made.
You sound like someone who's bitter because of Affirmative Action. AA is a necessity. Why? Because of the legacy of racism in the US. If you understood the history of racism in the US you would understand why that is so.
I'm not a great fan of AA myself, why? Because it keeps the status quo intact. Don't believe me? Just look at Barack Obama; a beneficiary of AA, who's all about maintaining the status quo. How could he do anything else, he's a Democrat, and firmly committed to the establishment.
And by the way, I'm not a supporter of Obama. I'm a Socialist.
I'm talking about racism. I don't know what you're talking about. And I doubt that you even know yourself. I never said that white people are innately evil, nor do I believe in blaming whites for all problems.
It is quite obvious you have a poor self image. I would suggest therapy for you.
It's quite obvious you don't quite get sarcasm. I would suggest getting over yourself. My self-image is fine, honey, and I DO know what I'm talking about. Anyone who lives life outside a library knows what I'm talking about, and I've spent time both in- and outside libraries and universities. You should try living in the real world at some point. Your initial response pretty much drips with that newly-minted-bachelor's-degree-in-political-science sort of attitude.
As for racism, it's pretty much equal-opportunity, which constitutes one of the greater ironies in life. We've had quite a few discussions on various boards. See if you can get past the idea that you're the only one who knows anything, m'kay?
So...why don't you let us all in on your vast storehouse of knowledge, here? Enlighten us. You're all about "You don't know anything about racism", and you seem to be contending that you DO, so spill. Or is this one of those Cruiselike "You don't know the history of psychiatry! I DO!" moments?
Last edited by FlourChild; 06-23-2008 at 05:55 PM..
Reason: Clarification
One of those "characters" that stand out in anyone's life, for ME, was a middle-aged black guy. He was my instructor in a very intense, high-speed technical course I was in, a 'year's worth of study' crammed into 3 months.
A tough, hard-boiled straight-talker, who delighted in his own 'outrageous' image (sort of a 'black Joe Arpaio'), he was a military retiree,while I was a Viet-Nam vet in my 30's. Since MOST of the class was much younger, (and they were pretty well 'terrified' of his sharp tongue, and mystified by his sarcasm, most of which went 'right over their heads') we sort of 'gravitated' to one another, and often went to lunch together in his 'vehicle' as he called it.
Among the MANY very "un-PC" things he often said, was the statement "The Black Man's greatest enemy is the White Liberal".
Knowing his 'thought processes' as I did, I knew he was alluding to the fact that sometimes, people who try TOO HARD to 'help', can come across as 'condescending'...and that sometimes, 'contempt' from others, bad as it is, MAY be preferable to their pity
Just one man's opinion, I suppose...but something to think about.
I think those are wise words not often articulated so well. I know I'v never managed to try & say that without it coming across as racist.
Anyway I'm a simple person & white guilt itself is pretty meaningless to me. I see it alot, but only find it mildly ammusing usually. Not many Americans have reason to feel guilt like that I dont think.
People are so PC they let themselves take blame for something they didn't do rather than argue or look bad.
Screw that.
It's quite obvious you don't quite get sarcasm. I would suggest getting over yourself. My self-image is fine, honey, and I DO know what I'm talking about. Anyone who lives life outside a library knows what I'm talking about, and I've spent time both in- and outside libraries and universities. You should try living in the real world at some point. Your initial response pretty much drips with that newly-minted-bachelor's-degree-in-political-science sort of attitude.
As for racism, it's pretty much equal-opportunity, which constitutes one of the greater ironies in life. We've had quite a few discussions on various boards. See if you can get past the idea that you're the only one who knows anything, m'kay?
So...why don't you let us all in on your vast storehouse of knowledge, here? Enlighten us. You're all about "You don't know anything about racism", and you seem to be contending that you DO, so spill. Or is this one of those Cruiselike "You don't know the history of psychiatry! I DO!" moments?
I am an Existentialist, which is a particular movement in philosophy. One of my areas of interests is in social issues. Which is to say; I apply philosophical rigor and insight to social issues and situations, in an effort towards greater understanding and hopefully solutions towards solving those problems. It's too bad my prose intimidates you, but if you opened your mind you might learn something. I've read and contemplated about racism in the US a WHOLE LOT MORE than you.
There are plenty of thinkers about race in the US that if you wanted to learn more you should read. Howard McGary, Lewis R Gordon, Cornel West, Michael Dyson, Linda Martin Alcoff, Naomi Zach, Anthony Appiah and Jorge Garcia. These are only a few, there are plenty more. All of them are contemporary American thinkers, who have thought deeply and written extensively on race in the US. I have read them all, how about yourself? Yeah, I didn't think so.
As for Tom Cruise, he hit the "nail right on the head," and revealed Matt Lauer for what he really is. An overpaid "know-nothing" who lacks the ability to form intelligent opinions on his own.
Guilt is one of our finest attributes as humans. It enables us to 'self-correct' our behavior, to regret our bad behavior, to improve upon it, and to take steps to atone for it.
Like anything else, it can be carried to extremes...and non-specific, "scrupulous" guilt can eventually take on the role of a masochistic self-flagellating attempt to "prove" that I'm better than the 'common' people...because I'm willing to 'take the blame' for everything. (There was a guy who DID do that, 2000 years ago, but He's not me..and in HIS case, there was no guilt.).
"Guilt" should be a noble attribute which elevates us above 'the animal kingdom'...not an open invitation to gain 'points' by 'grandstanding' and wallowing in a permanent state of "YOU may go ahead and 'rip into me', because I deserve it". That's just another form of egotism....just another form of "Let ME pay for the meal...It's all on me". Becomes a way to 'show off' or be a 'martyr' if it gets out of hand. (which, occasionally, it does)..
White guilt is just another branch of societal guilt. In the USA its the in thing to feel guilty about anything and everything especially if you are white. 150 years ago there was slavery in the USA.( Historical fact africans actually helped supply the slave trade by capturing rival tribesmen and selling them to slavers) Pony up and feel the guilt. Oh your ancestors never owned a slave and fought for the UNion? Pony up and feel the guilt because they didn't fight exclusively to end slavery.
We killed native americans by the thousands. ( Historical fact native americans often made slaves of captured opponents) Pony up and feel the guilt. Oh you are atleast part native american okay you need only feel partly guilty.
For some reason this nation loves to dwell on the past if only to dredge up the guilt. Never to learn from it.
Yes I feel slavery was dead wrong, one of the darkest moments and facts of our history. Can I change that it ever happened? NO. I can only endeavor to treat my fellow human as I wish to be treated. Harping on something 150 years old changes nothing.
I am an Existentialist, which is a particular movement in philosophy. One of my areas of interests is in social issues. Which is to say; I apply philosophical rigor and insight to social issues and situations, in an effort towards greater understanding and hopefully solutions towards solving those problems. It's too bad my prose intimidates you, but if you opened your mind you might learn something. I've read and contemplated about racism in the US a WHOLE LOT MORE than you.
There are plenty of thinkers about race in the US that if you wanted to learn more you should read. Howard McGary, Lewis R Gordon, Cornel West, Michael Dyson, Linda Martin Alcoff, Naomi Zach, Anthony Appiah and Jorge Garcia. These are only a few, there are plenty more. All of them are contemporary American thinkers, who have thought deeply and written extensively on race in the US. I have read them all, how about yourself? Yeah, I didn't think so.
As for Tom Cruise, he hit the "nail right on the head," and revealed Matt Lauer for what he really is. An overpaid "know-nothing" who lacks the ability to form intelligent opinions on his own.
Yeah, I know about Existentialism. I took philosophy classes too. See, what I'm getting at (and what you keep missing) is that maybe, just maybe, instead of jumping up and down about how brilliant [you think] you are, you could...I don't know, just going out on a limb here...BACK UP YOUR ARGUMENTS, with something more convincing than trumpeting your own passionate self-infatuation.
Your prose doesn't "intimidate" me; it amuses me. You cite these names; good for you. You throw around terms; bravo. Like I said, you come across as someone who just reached age 22 and likes to wave around a crisp new diploma. I've got a diploma too, honey. Whoopdedoo. You don't address anyone's argument, however, and by the way, endorsing Tom Cruise's rants isn't exactly a way to build credibility. Just pointing that out.
I am an Existentialist, which is a particular movement in philosophy. One of my areas of interests is in social issues. Which is to say; I apply philosophical rigor and insight to social issues and situations, in an effort towards greater understanding and hopefully solutions towards solving those problems. It's too bad my prose intimidates you, but if you opened your mind you might learn something. I've read and contemplated about racism in the US a WHOLE LOT MORE than you.
There are plenty of thinkers about race in the US that if you wanted to learn more you should read. Howard McGary, Lewis R Gordon, Cornel West, Michael Dyson, Linda Martin Alcoff, Naomi Zach, Anthony Appiah and Jorge Garcia. These are only a few, there are plenty more. All of them are contemporary American thinkers, who have thought deeply and written extensively on race in the US. I have read them all, how about yourself? Yeah, I didn't think so.
As for Tom Cruise, he hit the "nail right on the head," and revealed Matt Lauer for what he really is. An overpaid "know-nothing" who lacks the ability to form intelligent opinions on his own.
Oh, dear. Smug alert.
Your listing Michael Dyson as someone you find to be a "deep thinker" says a lot about you. I suggest that the others on this thread read one of Dyson's books if they want a chuckle. You don't have to buy it. Pick one up at the bookstore...you can read it in a few minutes. Not a heavy weight, that one.
Keep on hoping for white guilt...it's going the way of the dinosaur if you haven't noticed. Funny thing, most people in this country really don't care what race a person is. It's what a person does with their life that determines what they get out of that life. Funny just how fair things are these days.
People such as yourself, Dyson, West, Maxine Waters, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, etc. must be getting pretty worried. You all are being judged not by your skin color, but by your character.
The vast majority of people in America simply don't buy what you are selling.
But, please...by all means keep screaming victimization. Think I'll reserve my care and attention for real victims.
To answer the original question of this thread, "White Guilt" seems to be something traded heavily upon by people benefiting from it, and I am not referring to any particular race or color here. In fact, I think a lot of white liberals work it to their advantage; it apparently endears them--at least superficially--to demagogues of color (ANY color).
Unless a person is willing and logically able to take credit for any and every thing accomplished by his or her race, he or she probably doesn't need to assume blame for any and every misdeed perpetrated by his or her race. I know there's some academic job security out there for people who want us to think it's a lot more complicated, but that doesn't mean it truly IS more complicated than that.
Your listing Michael Dyson as someone you find to be a "deep thinker" says a lot about you.
Isn't he the guy who advocates reparations?
In fact, your "list" is a who's who of far-left liberal "thinkers".
What do you think of these thinkers? Steel, Williams, Sowell.
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