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Thankfully, most people, outside Arab tribal lands and some cowboy/hillbilly backwaters of the American south and southwest, reject summary execution for mere thievery. Unfortunately though, it seems an ignorant mindset is spreading in this US recently.
Well, it appears you were / are unfamiliar with the laws of the Western part of the United States - how justice was handled.
And while I agree that the death penalty is not appropriate for stealing a few head of cattle, I do strongly support the death penalty in other situations -
The man in Pasadena was within his legal rights AND responsibilities to shoot the two men. THEREFORE the what he did isn't murder.
If you don't like this particular law of Texas, I suggest you NEVER move there because the gun laws in Texas are becoming more lax, not the other way around.
Murder isn't the kind of word to throw around so casually. His action has been defined as a justifiable homicide by the legal system in Texas. Like it or not, that is the reality.
No. That's your definition of reality, not mine. Just because a jury sees things one way does not automatically make me believe he is innocent. Just as in the OJ case. Both murderers as far as I am concerned. I'm not going to sugar-coat that word for anyone.
Not to be a stickler, but if we are talking about intricate legal theories, we need to be correct and consistent.
As far as the apparent "cut and dry" aspect of the Texas Statute I can assure you that no statute is "cut and dry." There is always case law and other particularities of the law that can have sometimes unforeseen effects on the application of a specific statute.
I read the statute you referred to and see the section you are citing. That being said, I also heard from a criminal attorney in Texas who stated that if one contributes to the dangerousness of the situation, that can limit the ability for a person to use the defense of justifiable homicide. Again, this all leads into whether the shooter acted reasonably given the threat at the time. This, of course, is normally a question left to the jury if there is enough evidence to bring indictment. I believe his statements to the 991 operator were more than enough evidence for an indictment in this situation but, the grand jury in this case didn't feel that way. Like I said before, I would chalk this up to peremptory jury nullification.
CHAPTER 9. JUSTIFICATION EXCLUDING CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY SECTION 9.01. DEFINITIONS (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.01.00 - broken link)
SECTION 9.02. JUSTIFICATION AS A DEFENSE (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.02.00 - broken link)
SECTION 9.03. CONFINEMENT AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.03.00 - broken link)
SECTION 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.04.00 - broken link)
SECTION 9.05. RECKLESS INJURY OF INNOCENT THIRD PERSON (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.05.00 - broken link)
SECTION 9.06. CIVIL REMEDIES UNAFFECTED (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.06.00 - broken link)
SECTION 9.21. PUBLIC DUTY (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.21.00 - broken link)
SECTION 9.22. NECESSITY (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.22.00 - broken link)
SECTION 9.31. SELF-DEFENSE (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.31.00 - broken link)
SECTION 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.32.00 - broken link)
SECTION 9.33. DEFENSE OF THIRD PERSON (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.33.00 - broken link)
SECTION 9.34. PROTECTION OF LIFE OR HEALTH (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.34.00 - broken link)
SECTION 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.41.00 - broken link)
SECTION 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.42.00 - broken link)
SECTION 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.43.00 - broken link)
SECTION 9.44. USE OF DEVICE TO PROTECT PROPERTY (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.44.00 - broken link)
SECTION 9.51. ARREST AND SEARCH (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.51.00 - broken link)
SECTION 9.52. PREVENTION OF ESCAPE FROM CUSTODY (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.52.00 - broken link)
SECTION 9.53. MAINTAINING SECURITY IN CORRECTIONAL FACILITY (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.53.00 - broken link)
SECTION 9.61. PARENT-CHILD (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.61.00 - broken link)
SECTION 9.62. EDUCATOR-STUDENT (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.62.00 - broken link)
SECTION 9.63. GUARDIAN-INCOMPETENT (http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm#9.63.00 - broken link)
Would be a lot better to use the actual law instead of someone's interpretation that was submitted to wiki.
Perhaps you didn't notice the OP??? Who started calling names? Wasn't me, I do believe that post calls the guy a yahoo. Go figure, I don't expect you to understand.
Nah, I'm a woman. The word yahoo was a bit too kind for the murderer and I used wackos, referring to the jury. If no one likes that, then they can shut this thread down. I think everyone's mind is made up about this and it won't change anything. Hate breeds hate anyway.
Would be a lot better to use the actual law instead of someone's interpretation that was submitted to wiki.
Your statement seemed to claim that Castle Doctrine has something to do with civil liability.
I posted the wiki article to show you that the Castle Doctrine is a legal theory of self defense (e.x. justifiable homicide). Any Texas law regarding civil liability (or lack there of) for justifiable homicide is separate and distinct from the legal doctrine of the Castle Doctrine.
I can see that you (or anyone else) didn't comment on the possible negative side of this "shot first, ask questions later" cowboy instinct.
Anyway, defending one's own life or the life of another is one thing. That is not what was occuring here. This was not "self defense" but probably more accurately called "stuff defense."
Again, no property is worth the life of another human being. If you feel differently...well, you have a completely different moral compass than anyone I have ever met in this country. I've noticed this blood-feud like mentality on my trip to the Arab world though and through news coverage over there. People over there kill each over measly property all the time. As for me...I place a little more value on human life.
Perhaps you would be more comfortable in a country and culture where the death penalty is handed out for just about anything and petty crimes are punished by gouging out eyes or cutting off hands.
No one, but no one has the right, to enter on someone else's property, which is not open to the public. I'll say again....our parents taught us, we have no business on someone else's property...especially at night, when we kids used to steal corn for Halloween. We were told and warned, it is the BEST way to get shot....and it is...regardless of moral compass or not...it is in fact, privet property, which nobody gets anymore in this day and age...parents don't teach kids to respect the rights, peace and quiet, and the value of someone else's property, where they don't belong.
No one, but no one has the right, to enter on someone else's property, which is not open to the public. I'll say again....our parents taught us, we have no business on someone else's property...especially at night, when we kids used to steal corn for Halloween. We were told and warned, it is the BEST way to get shot....and it is...regardless of moral compass or not...it is in fact, privet property, which nobody gets anymore in this day and age...parents don't teach kids to respect the rights, peace and quiet, and the value of someone else's property, where they don't belong.
First off, you're not completely correct. There are situations in the law that allow one to enter another's property without permission (trespass), for example in certain emergency situations (the so-called Benevolent Trespasser). That does not seem to be the case here but I merely pointed this out to show your statement as over broad.
Second, even assuming your broad statement regarding property rights is true, this does not mean that using deadly force to protect this right is moral. In fact, in most jurisdictions (and most countries) I would say it is beyond just a moral wrong, it is a crime.
I will say it again, no property is worth a human life. Period.
On ABC Good Morning America this morning they said twenty five states have the same law as Texas. So I guess that makes them hillbilly hicks, wildwest states just like Texas....I'll bet some of those are up north.
Also on the local news here this morning there was another home invasion in Houston last night and the homeownwer was stabbed..
I'm just wondering if maybe we are getting tired of this happing in Texas..
none of you know if i have ever been a victim of crime or violence, so dont speak on that please.
i live in LA, and have run the streets of the most "undesirable" parts of town. im gald i made it thru shootings and such. its been crazy, but exciting. i made it.
and i have interceded on behalf of women being assaulted, i have stepped up to kids bullying other kids on the train, ive done my part to try and make my slice of heaven...more divine.
but i wil never kill a man for stealing property. if he came into kill my kids. i probably would. i beleive in self defense.
this was not self defense.
do i beleive criminals should be aprehended and punished? yes. will i be the one to aprehend them if they try to run off with a TV? no.
which also offers the question... why did this guy shoot? why not rally his other cop friend who apparently was around or another neighbor and stop these guys? if he truly wanted to restrain them, why not do that tuff guy? he had enough time to call 911 after all...
it just seems that this guy got hyped up and went gun happy.
he might have been tired of it all.
it could have been the last straw. but this reminds me of this old man in OHIO, cant remember where exactly, who was tired of kids walking along his grass(corner lot i think). after repeatedly telling the kids, to no avail, to stay off his prsitine lawn he ended up shooting and killing one of them. not the best judgement call and not the most responsible citizen in my mind.
is that acceptable? where is the line drawn. thats what i really want to know.
again, i beleive in defending myself when threatened, but if there is no threat... then what.
i have been around guns, and i enjoy going to the range, i do, but i have seen people get shot, and ive said this before on other posts... i have seen people shoot back. often times pock marking the unintended house or car. what if this guy would have missed his target and shot someone else? maybe its because i HAVE seen enough gun play (both responsible and otherwise) that i would rather leave it up to the cops, but even they sometimes get it wrong. this guy got it wrong in my mind.
so, where does it stop?
can i shoot someone for walkin on my grass?
can i shoot someone for stealing my neighbors car?
and im fine with the lowlifes getting what is coming, but again does the punishment fit the crime. and who decides that? can yall not see that?
there is also a case right now of some cops in LA who apparently "planted" evidence on some guy they felt was getting away with other stuff. [no] thanks to surveilance video the truth was revealed that the drugs in questions were not his and now the dept. looks more corrupt than before, the cops further discredited in the community and some guy, who wouldve probably got caught eventually, will sue the city because his rights were trampled.
what did chief bratton have to say?
we should not break the law, to enforce it.
but i guess ol'boy that we are discussin here wasnt breaking the law... at least not in texas.
this just seems like another sad case. i personally would not want blood on my hands over somehting like this. but well this man has to deal with the fact that he took someones life. i hope he dreams about this. i hope he seeks counseling. and i hope he never picks up a gun. my bro always told me the first kill was the easiest...
as for the "take back the night"... i was being facetious. sarcastic. in reference to the alarmism of it all. it doesnt go over very well on the net i suppose.
Well my daughter and her boyfriend were a victim of crime, someone broke in, killed her boyfriend and stabbed her seven times. I'm all for our laws here...
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