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Take is from an atheist. It doesnt happen just in Miami. I live in Arkansas now and see it here all the time. Of course, this is the bible belt and you would expect it. My girl, who is also atheist, works at the Walmart corporate office and she says they always pray at the meetings and talk about religion all the time. I have seen it at my job too although its a catholic hospital, you would think they would still be aware that not everyone is catholic. But it doenst really bother me and as long as I am not looked down for not lowering my head and praying, then I dont care what they do. I bring my atheist books to work and nobody says anything. Its called respect for other peoples beliefs. So if they pray and say the pledge of allegiance and you dont want too, dont!Simple as that.
If you work in a religion based hospital, they do have the right to be of there
relgion! When you are on a death bed, and belive this is it? Not a problem!
However, when, you belive, there is heaven, it helps! Also, try this out, I believe, Dogs go to heaven! Why not?
Sorry, I was off watching YouTube videos of Glen Beck weeping. It sustains me.
Yes, I'll sit in the back of the bus, because that's where I belong.
Your issues has been addressed a number of times already in this thread. I suggest that when you post to a thread with 158 posts, that you're point has probably come back at least once. Maybe a dozen times, even.
I'll summarize for you. Treating certain people as second class citizens ("You can just step outside if you don't like our government sanctioned and sponsored prayers") doesn't solve the Constitutional problem (see the establishment clause, First Amendment).Sorry! Most people enjoy the back of the Bus!
I have no idea what your talking about. Do you mean that we're fighting in the Middle East because of religious extremism (of the Islmic variety), and a president who claims he was guided inot war by the voice of God?
And God has our money, if you take a look at the treasury of the Catholic Church and the megachurches.
So the problem is what?
Apparently you and I have a difference in the source of our laws and federal government organization. It's the Constitution, not the bible. We live in a secular republic (!), regardless of what you may think he religion of the Founding Fathers was. I don't care if every person in the U.S. has the faith of a Taliban and prays from morning to night. The Constution is still the supreme law of the land.
In over a hundred posts, a bunch of which went into detail what the problem is, you still don't understand? That's too bad. Give it some more thought.[/quote]
Apparently you and I have a difference in the source of our laws and federal government organization. It's the Constitution, not the bible. We live in a secular republic (!), regardless of what you may think he religion of the Founding Fathers was. I don't care if every person in the U.S. has the faith of a Taliban and prays from morning to night. The Constution is still the supreme law of the land.
In over a hundred posts, a bunch of which went into detail what the problem is, you still don't understand? That's too bad. Give it some more thought.
[/quote]Tell Your Job, to give this meeting stuff, to a person who may deal with it! That should not be a real issue, since, it is not what you
wish to hear! Also based on doing this, and a prayer, at a meeting, just say
I do not wish to do this, problem gone! Why? I believe, in Easter, and not Happy Holidays, but it was Christmas! 12-25 each year! Christmas comes every year same date, never changed, that is my thought! Wonder why that is? Oh, and this year for St Patrick, the White House had Green! Must be Bad!
First time ever! Green water, for a Catholic Saint! That was on the national news!
Last edited by maggiekate; 03-28-2009 at 01:09 AM..
I could maybe see an issue about the prayer, but what's wrong with saying the Pledge of Allegiance at a government meeting? I know it's a public meeting, but it's held by the City of Miami, a government entity. Contrary to what many people believe, Miami is still part of the U.S.A.!
I'm surprised they got rid of the pledge anywhere in the Midwest because of "under God." I grew up saying the pledge in the public schools here in Miami, and as far as I know, they still say it (don't they??).
Can't please everybody all the time...
I am in New Tampa, and,
even if I came from Bean Town, etc., the big problem we have is the Rays
Yanks, and Red Sox! Baseball! I did teach, and each day we did the Pledge
of Allegiance to the Flag! once one child said no, all just did go on! He sat it out? no questions asked, life did go forward! He did it with no clue to the why?
Now what about the God Bless America? It always was, and always will be! Yes, I do think so far Miami, is part of Florida, the rebel state! Or confused
state? Elections always get messed up here! However, in March when it is 80, and no snow, why we are so confused! In Boston, it was for the Red Sox, wait til next year, and taxes, have a Boston Tea Party! However, it was always a noreaster coming! Boston has real faith in the Red Sox, so does Tampa
now, with the Rays, and not to leave out New York, and the dreaded Yankees! I also did pray so hard for help when I had a test, and exams. why not?
Yes, Miami, is still a part of Florida,and all the big guys, come this way, to win us over? Must mean Florida is a VIP land!
Last edited by maggiekate; 03-28-2009 at 02:11 AM..
Tell Your Job, to give this meeting stuff, to a person who may deal with it! That should not be a real issue, since, it is not what you
wish to hear! Also based on doing this, and a prayer, at a meeting, just say
I do not wish to do this, problem gone! Why? I believe, in Easter, and not Happy Holidays, but it was Christmas! 12-25 each year! Christmas comes every year same date, never changed, that is my thought! Wonder why that is? Oh, and this year for St Patrick, the White House had Green! Must be Bad!
First time ever! Green water, for a Catholic Saint! That was on the national news!
What if there is no other person to deal with it? How much disruption of peoples' business is the religious compulsion of the city council worth? It makes no sense. Even if there weren't a Constitutional problem, we have a case of the cart dragging the horse.
I have no idea what the exclamation-point-laden rest of your paragraph is about. Apparently there are holidays. None of what you said has any discernible relationship to legislative prayer (the topic under discussion) other than a lot of people in this country are bent on annoying other people in pursuit of their religious ideology.
Here's something to think about: Those holidays have all been turned into secular commercial fluff. The holy aspects of them have been beaten out. Christmas has turned into a secular celebration of gluttonous excess. Are you happy now? Few people think of Jesus on Christmas any more. Now they think about whether they got a gift for everyone on their list. Way to go, Christians.
You should look into how December 25 was chosen as the date to celebrate Christmas. Hint: it has pagan roots.
It may be a lot of years since you were an elementary/middle student, so perhaps you don't remember what it's like for kids who don't "fit in". It's often not a pretty picture. But hey, pledging allegiance in public (as opposed to actually meaning it) is more important than anything, right? I mean, it's worth sacrificing a few student here and there for it, you know.
Have you ever noticed that the more emphatic people are in their public pronouncements, the less sincere they are? David Vitter is the latest poster boy for hypocrisy. I wonder if Louisiana will re-elect that sanctimonious prostitute lover. (His tantrum at Dulles was icing on the cake.) The wife-cheating, prostitution-loving Christian senator was all in favor of prayer at school board meetings in Louisiana. Ironically, he's also one of the most hate spewing, intolerant senator on Capitol Hillalong with Inhofe.
Location: miami, fla. enjoying the relative cool, for now ;)
1,085 posts, read 2,530,902 times
Reputation: 1063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cougar Beach
The number of people reading the thread. The number of comments I'm getting. The fact that, even though you have no idea how to address the subject, you can't keep from commenting.
Whether you like it or not, people are interested in the topic.
Is anyone going to take up a pool to see if I really raise sh*t at City Hall? I've done it before. In Miami Beach, it's not hard to do. Not a banana republic (there's that word again, oh my!).
How old do you claim to be? You say you're not a child in real life, right?
the number of comments you are getting? I have no idea how to address the subject? you are indeed quite dense and full of yourself. this topic, along with any political discussion will surely spark emotions. by far the most emotional poster here is you though I do admit to not even bother reading most of your posts at this point.
personally I'm dispassionate on this topic and will not argue my belief with anyone most especially you as after all you have been wrong before and in this thread completely.
I will offer this by way of clarification (once again) you (since it's all about YOU in your little world) and the rest of us have the right of freedom of expression of our religious beliefs or more importantly the right to no belief at all. I have acknwoledged this repeatedly and yet you fail to grasp this simple point.
I don't care what you believe, that's your business. I don't care what you think, that's your business. I don't care about your opinion as I have my own. generally I don't care what others think though if I find myself in a philosophical quandry I will occasionally consult with a mentor.
my age? funny you should ask because I am wondering about yours. I'm guessing a mental twelve for you.
Has anyone noticed the "decline" in this Country since PRAYER AND HONORING OUR FLAG has been taken from our schools??? I speak at Veterans Memorial Services and seeing men and women without limbs and loss of sight and hanging on canes and crutches gets me in the gut! AND SO DO THESE BIMBOS who will not honor prayer and the flag. Maybe you need to go to WAR and we'll see then how you PRAY AND HONOR OUR PRECIOUS FLAG!
If you work in a religion based hospital, they do have the right to be of there
relgion! When you are on a death bed, and belive this is it? Not a problem!
However, when, you belive, there is heaven, it helps! Also, try this out, I believe, Dogs go to heaven! Why not?
I have no idea what you are getting at. What did you teach?
There are religious hospital (I suppose a religion-based hospital would employ witch doctors, as opposed to a science-based hospital.) This has nothing to do with legislative prayer, which is the subject under discussion.
the number of comments you are getting? I have no idea how to address the subject? you are indeed quite dense and full of yourself.
And you just don't get it. What's right is not a popularity contest. I imagine if this were the early 60's and we were discussing institutional bigotry toward black (you do realize that "separate-but-equal" prevailed in Miami 50 years ago, don't you?), someone would likely try to track me down and beat me. Popularity and being right have nothing to do with each other. Did you not learn anything from your religion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dadeguy
this topic, along with any political discussion will surely spark emotions. by far the most emotional poster here is you though I do admit to not even bother reading most of your posts at this point.
You are welcome to your ignorance-based opinion (you did just admit that your opinion is based on ignorance). How many posters here put up actual information about the law, objective references, etc. One is not interested in arguing the facts when one "knows" he's right. Decisions become so simple.
It's interesting to see how mobs operate. To each one, nothing they say is an insult, no matter how horrid, but any slight from the other side is just terrible. It's not easy for people to be objective. Would you like me to list the insults? Or are they by definition not insults because I suck?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dadeguy
personally I'm dispassionate on this topic and will not argue my belief with anyone most especially you as after all you have been wrong before and in this thread completely.
The second part of your sentence belies the first part. All you seem to be capable of is beating the "You're wrong! You're wrong! You're wrong!" drum, and tossing off insults. You clearly are passionate about something. Are you just here to exchange personal attacks?
You won't discuss your beliefs with me because "all I have been is wrong?" Okay, only discuss your beliefs and opinions with those with whom you agree. You can live in a echo chamber and have a mutual admiration society with your friends.
I don't care about your beliefs. I do, however care about the topic of this thread. I don't care if you think it's an ego trip. You question the nature of my beliefs, even though you don't know me. If that's not prejudice, then what is?
I don't care if I get kudos, negative kudos, or no kudos, although messages expressing understanding of the subject (even ones that oppose what I'm saying) are always welcome. Notice that I didn't say, "even those that oppose me". This is not to you personally: It's okay if you hate me, but it's not constructive to tell me how you'd like to dismember me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dadeguy
I will offer this by way of clarification (once again) you (since it's all about YOU in your little world) and the rest of us have the right of freedom of expression of our religious beliefs or more importantly the right to no belief at all. I have acknwoledged this repeatedly and yet you fail to grasp this simple point.
No, it has nothing to do with me. It has to do with upholding the laws and principles of my country, no matter how many people disagree. It was true regarding slavery, it was true regarding civil rights, and it's true regarding legislative prayer in the U.S.
I will not let you get away with dumbing down the argument. The freedom of expression is not unlimited. The government does not have the freedom to promote a religion. I grasp what you are saying quite well. I see that you keep repeating it. If you think it's right, then explain how what you want (in effect, the government serving as a church) comports with the Constitution.
You must realize that the presence of religion in government institutions is not what it was 50 years ago. It's been rightly push out where it doesn't belong (according the the Establishment Clause). It's been done through the legal process. You do know that much contemporary American history, don't you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dadeguy
I don't care what you believe, that's your business. I don't care what you think, that's your business.
I don't care about your religious faith, but if you call yourself a Christian, I have to wonder....
Quote:
Originally Posted by dadeguy
I don't care about your opinion as I have my own.
I see why you have trouble with the word "democracy". Don't you wish you were the dictator? If you don't care, then I must be imagining that you're posting in this thread, and those green smileys at the bottom are an illusion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dadeguy
generally I don't care what others think though if I find myself in a philosophical quandry I will occasionally consult with a mentor.
You've made it quite clear that you don't care about other's opinions.
I do care what others think about topics. I don't care what they think about me. I'm way past the teen angst stage of life. The subject under discussion is one I've thought a lot about for a very long time. This is not just a lark. It's not likely that I will be swayed on a matter of legal priniciple by people who have little technical knowledge of the topic, making emotional appeals. The non-legal arguments (like the one's about salvation in this thread) tend to be irrelevant to the topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dadeguy
my age? funny you should ask because I am wondering about yours. I'm guessing a mental twelve for you.
got shrew?
You're just full of constructive comments. The smiley faces mean you can be as rude and agressive as you want, but then it's all okay.
I suggest a bit of introspection on your part.
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