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Old 07-06-2008, 02:03 AM
 
3,283 posts, read 5,135,481 times
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can all those "regulate or die" types out there please explain this to me. is there anyone out there who believes that we have free markets? can anyone give me any examples of where the free market has failed?
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Old 07-06-2008, 05:19 AM
 
Location: Tolland County- Northeastern CT
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Free Markets like any other economic system are not perfect. Throughout American and World history the economy has never been without significant corrections.

The economy now has had several decades of lower amounts of regulation; but demographics are changing here now- where 28 years ago the boomers where ready to embrace less legislation- and the stock market soared for nearly 2 decades.

In recent years however asset bubbles -first in information technology and recently housing has produced an imbalance of over consumption and increasing amounts of debt all in a savings short America that is aging. Plus you have had an over compliant Fed willing to slash interest rates to nothing at the expense of savers, while causing the dollar to fall, and increase the price of commodities.

Corporations have ended pensions, workers have far less economic security compared to 30 years, health care needs reformed. More regulation may be needed now to make the worker-employer relationship more balanced.
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Old 07-06-2008, 06:14 AM
 
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The idea of free markets gives the impression that both sides are equal and the reality is anything but equal.
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Old 07-06-2008, 06:23 AM
 
Location: Ohio
24,513 posts, read 18,602,842 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 58robbo View Post
can all those "regulate or die" types out there please explain this to me. is there anyone out there who believes that we have free markets? can anyone give me any examples of where the free market has failed?
It isn't possible for The Free Market System to fail. It works exactly as it was intended. In addition to answering the three basic questions, What shall we produce? How shall we produce it? and For whom shall we produce?, the Free Market also addresses the issue of scarcity and fairly distributes resources that are scarce.
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Old 07-06-2008, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Wheaton, Illinois
10,261 posts, read 21,369,242 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
It isn't possible for The Free Market System to fail.

Spoken like a religious zealout. Just define whatever outcome the market gives as a success.
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Old 07-06-2008, 10:22 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,796 posts, read 7,154,349 times
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Free markets do not fail. A free market economy continually regulates itself. Corrections are the free markets way of regulating itself. The excesses that make corrections necessary are caused by Central banks flooding the system with easy credit, causing false wealth, over confidence, and speculation. It is when free markets are interfered with by Banks and Governments that problems occur.
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Old 07-06-2008, 10:23 AM
 
3,283 posts, read 5,135,481 times
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Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
Spoken like a religious zealout. Just define whatever outcome the market gives as a success.
first off i don't think in terms of success, i prefer to think in terms of sustainability. failure to me is the creation of markets which aren't sustainable. in this case i believe the free market is infallible.

to start off this thread i asked 2 simple questions. we're on post 5 and i see a few opinions but no-one seems to want to answer the questions
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Old 07-07-2008, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Ohio
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Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
Spoken like a religious zealout. Just define whatever outcome the market gives as a success.
I'm ultra-conservative, and an atheist.
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Old 07-07-2008, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,513 posts, read 18,602,842 times
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Originally Posted by 58robbo View Post
first off i don't think in terms of success, i prefer to think in terms of sustainability. failure to me is the creation of markets which aren't sustainable. in this case i believe the free market is infallible.
No.

All economic systems, the Free Market, Command, Mixed, and Traditional answer the three basic questions: What shall we produce? How shall we produce it? and For whom shall we produce?

The answer to each of those questions is the economic system, like this:

What shall we produce?

1) Market Economy: The Market will decide.

2) Command Economy: The Group/Bureaucracy/Oligarchy/Committee will decide.

3) Traditional: Tradition will decide.

Your position is silly.

What shall we produce? Shall we produce computers?

Duh, yeah, because the Market has decided to so because YOU demanded it.

How shall we produce tomatoes? Well there's a market for traditionally or neo-traditionally grown tomatoes, and a market for organically grown tomatoes. And it's because YOU the CONSUMER demanded it.

How shall we produce computers? En masse or individualized? You have both options, because YOU the CONSUMER demanded it. You can get a massed produced Gateway or Dell, or you can go to a private company who will build you a computer to your exact specifications with respect to hard drive capacity, RAM, Video RAM, audio and video cards etc etc (there are two such privately owned businesses with a few blocks of me). Perhaps you might pay a wee bit more, but then you're getting exactly what you asked for.

You're saying markets are created, well yeah, by YOU the CONSUMER.

If it isn't sustainable, then it's because YOU the CONSUMER no longer have a demand for that product or service.

You want to subsidize buggy whip manufacturers? How about manufacturers of 8-Track Tape Decks? What the hell for? YOU the CONSUMER no longer demand those items.

That's exactly how the Free Market is supposed to work. If you had a company that made cassette tapes, then hopefully your market research saw the demand for compact discs, and you then went out and raised the capital to purchase machinery and equipment to make compact discs and to retrain your workers to operate the machinery and equipment. If you didn't, then you'd end up like the buggy whip manufacturers.

The housing market? It's sustainable only so long as YOU the CONSUMER continue to demand new housing. When that demand ends or curtails, the market drops off.

How many new houses are you going to build? How many new houses can you build?

Are you going to build a new house for me? Why? I don't want a new house. You couldn't give me one. I don't want the responsibility or the headache or the higher cost, especially for property taxes, insurance, utilities, maintenance etc. Besides, I have a house elsewhere.

Who seriously thought they would build 1,500,000 new homes per year, year after year after year? Who are they building them for, because not everyone wants a home, or can physically handle a home, or has the money, or has the credit for one.

Only a moron wouldn't understand that it was unsustainable. That's one of the beautiful things about markets, you can do research to understand them and their sustainability. Obviously they failed to do that in the housing market.
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Old 07-07-2008, 01:21 PM
 
5,768 posts, read 11,468,965 times
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A free market is a theoretical construct. People sometimes appeal to "the free market" to defend their actions, when in fact they are arguing for a distorted market in which they are the recipients of economic or legislative favors from the government.

A good book on this topic is conservative-leaning journalist Tim Carney's 2006 book "The Big Ripoff: How Big Business and Big Government Steal Your Money."

Amazon page
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