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yeah....he jumped to her defense because she is white. are you black? if so...it sounds like you may be a little racist. but that isn't possible is it? black people aren't racist are they? it is only white people.
Actually, I'm white. But people like Elisabeth Hasselback really bring out my white guilt.
so if a white person where to use the term but pronounce it "n/gga" it would be ok? Somehow I think that the white person would still be considered racist/prejudiced, which presents itself as a double standard.
It honestly does not bother me, n/gga or n'gger. I was taught to listen to "how people say" more than "what people say." It really all depends on the context. People come across the wrong way all the time, but I can chose how I perceive it.
For example: my white friend and I have been friends since 6th grade. We joke around all the time. As we both know, we can exaggerate a story in a heartbeat when we're excited (don't act like you don't know what I'm talking about ). When she thinks I'm over doing it, she'll say, "N'igga please!" She wasn't trying to insult me. It is that familiarity that makes it okay with me. I know where she is coming from and we have history together. She is not trying to degrade me is the difference. I honestly don't care who says the word. It is a word. Words are there so that you can express yourself. Of course you can use n/gger to tear someone down, on the same token... you can use fat, ugly, poor, etc for the same effect. Are we trying to not use the word fat now? It just gets all too complicated after a while.
It is all about understanding each other. I have common sense enough to know when someone is trying to condescend to me, and when they are in the moment. I'm not going to get all bent out of shape over some antiquated word that holds no value in the context of the conversation I'm having at that time. And I especially don't want someone outside of that dynamic telling me how I should feel about things directed toward me. It's none of their business.
Last edited by gradco2004; 07-19-2008 at 12:25 AM..
i'm sure she would just be heartbroken if she knew you thought she was an idiot. i thought liberals were really open minded....oh wait...they are only open minded to their own views.
There you go again, taking it upon yourself to be sorry on my behalf. You feel sorry for me? A word means more to me than President Abe Lincoln? WTF? Where are you getting this stuff from?
I think we should call it quits because you aren't even trying. I have extended my hand in earnest several times, but I just give up now. Please, hold strong to your opinion. It was never my intention to change it in the first place. I was trying to give you a piece of my world (you know, actually living the black experience) but that is not good enough for you.
I don't need anyone to agree with me, given I have only been speaking for myself. Mass agreement doesn't make something right. We can all say the sky is purple, doesn't mean that it is. Ad numerum fallacy doesn't make you right.
As I said you lack the fortitude. You have yet to extend anything but your weak argument and your insults. The fact of the matter still remains that something that is okay for one group of people but not for another is racism. Kayne West can use racial slurs in a public forum and no one cares, but when a white professor used the word while discussing taboo words in his communications class he was fired. That is the problem. On this point you are unable to argue so you chose to call me self righteous and selfish and opinionated and childish. I never called you a name; rather I challenged you on your explanation as it was superficial. Don't call me names if you lack the ability to stand behind your words and argue your case. You made the choice to put the post out there without the fortitude to stand behind it.
Location: Charlotte,NC, US, North America, Earth, Alpha Quadrant,Milky Way Galaxy
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Elisabeth was absolutely correct and Whoopi was absolutely wrong. Elisabeth was probably raised to believe that the N-Bomb is a hateful word with a hateful history and social context. You could see the utter pain caused by the confusion on her face. Whoopi is making the same tired argument that what we do and say "in the family" is only applicable in the family. For instance I can call my brother a jerk, but you can't.
There's no justification, no word with "a" or an "r", it's hateful either way. Until we can apply simple child like logic to it (meaning it's just plain wrong), this will be one of several "wheel spinning in the mud" issues that dilutes the focus on real issues that effect us all.
It honestly does not bother me, n/gga or n'gger. I was taught to listen to "how people say" more than "what people say." It really all depends on the context. People come across the wrong way all the time, but I can chose how I perceive it.
For example: my white friend and I have been friends since 6th grade. We joke around all the time. As we both know, we can exaggerate a story in a heartbeat when we're excited (don't act like you don't know what I'm talking about ). When she thinks I'm over doing it, she'll say, "N'igga please!" She wasn't trying to insult me. It is that familiarity that makes it okay with me. I know where she is coming from and we have history together. She is not trying to degrade me is the difference. I honestly don't care who says the word. It is a word. Words are there so that you can express yourself. Of course you can use n/gger to tear someone down, on the same token... you can use fat, ugly, poor, etc for the same effect. Are we trying to not use the word fat now? It just gets all too complicated after a while.
It is all about understanding each other. I have common sense enough to know when someone is trying to condescend to me, and when they are in the moment. I'm not going to get all bent out of shape over some antiquated word that holds no value in the context of the conversation I'm having at that time. And I especially don't want someone outside of that dynamic telling me how I should feel about things directed toward me. It's none of their business.
Okay and now some one is drunk and says the same thing and the other person because he is drunk is taken the words different that when he wouldn't have been drinking and is getting upset....wow, just look at programs as "cops" and other shows....people react different on similar tissues when in a different situation, so IMO better not say it at all.
But since many blacks want to keep the word, the issue will never been solved and they only have to blame them self for feeling entitled to a word that isn't just a word and theirs. There is the doubles standard that black people seems to like and ever since Obama is running the racism has been bigger than before, wow so much for change!
Black people using the word is more acceptible because it is ironic I guess? Kind of like a wheelchair bound person saying, " You ole' handicap so and so." It's like the irony negates any condescending value the word may have between two people of the same circumstance. Over time, it just becomes familiar and holds no power. I know that may be hard for some of you to understand, but that is the best I can explain it. If there is anyway I can make my point of view clearer, please let me know.
This conversation is very intersting to me. I have never posted to anything before but felt that I had an opinion to express.
In our society WE (as in all races, creeds and colors) are teaching our children younger and younger things that add fuel to the fire. And it is not only race topics it is everything from music to tv. If WE expect people to be treated the same then why are there double standards. Just like calling women BI.....and HO I find great offence to these terms because they are meant to be put downs and be negative. But when you turn on tv or the radio that is all you hear.....What is this teaching our young girls white or black or purple or green.....I feel the same way about the N word. The basis behind that word now a days is negative and if we are suppose to be leading by example so our younger generations don't have the same struggles as we have had what are we teaching them.
And as far as the handicap thing.....No it is not OK....I do have a daughter that is disabled and you talk about stares and whispers and people treating you different or like you have a pleague. I try to teach my children to look at the person not the color of their skin. Everyone is different and EVERY RACE HAS ITS GOOD AND BAD IN IT!!!!!! So why not start to change the way our kids see things...They have to be taught this word so if we don't say it will they not learn it? just a few thoughts
[quote=hal512;4515523]In your first post you spoke of becoming "desensitized" to a word by using that word yourself in essence taking control of the word.
A lot of gays call each other "f.a.g" in conversation as a means of comic relief and familiarity. Gays are called that word almost everyday of their life. Once someone decides that they will not allow themselves to be defined and demonized by a word, they become desensitized to it.Again, it is more about the casual and IRONIC USE of the word between PEOPLE OF A COMMON CIRCUMSTANCE.
I'll say it again your shallow explanation is BS! Where in my post do you find that I have ever used the word? The statement about controlling myself is just that I find the word offensive because of the history that goes along with it and therefore I choose not to use. I've never wanted to use it. My children have not been around a lot of minorities other than Hispanic but they have not singled any child out due to being Indian, Asian, Arab, or Black. I chalk that up to my not seeing differences so they don't see differences. The fact that I grew up in a foreign country I'm sure played the biggest role as being an American in Saudi was not fun. My older child has started pointing out all the overweight people and we are working on that one. Your questions do nothing to help your cause or to diminish my response. The word carries years of hate, murder, torture, rape, oppression, and fear behind it. Let us not forget it was not only the freed slaves who were killed, it was a president and people who moved to the south to help to support the newly freed slaves. I find it difficult to understand how that would not offend everyone.
Quote:
I mean... trying to make someone feel bad or ignorant for the way they express themselves is really selfish.[QUOTE]
If you feel bad or ignorant due to the use of the word those are your feelings don't put them on me. Calling me selfish for thinking of how many children and women were beaten and victimized because of how someone viewed their servitude in this world is simply wrong. I've not said don't use the word. I've said it should be all or nothing. I believe you have these feelings because you know it is wrong and you are trying to pin the blame on me. As I said before I can't control everyone nor do I want to, but I also will not sit by and not call out your frivolous explanation. The word should either be okay for everyone in the media, and public forum or it should be okay for no one. To allow it for some and not others is racism just as allowing some the right to vote but not others was racism.
If Jackson and Sharpton don't speak for the community then why does the community not stand together against Jackson and Sharpton on their hypocrisy and reverse racism? They are only two people after all it would not be difficult to rise to the occasion to put an end to blame and hate mongering.
Now this is exactly why I totally agree with Whoopi. I read this post and as a Black woman...it irks me...sorry. Ok, you teach your White children that everyone is the same and equal and we are all one big happy family. But we are not. We are not! You can respect and honor diversity and not foster racism. Being on the receiving end...from ages 7 to 12 I lived in a pretty lily white area of Eastern Pennsylvania. None of my childhood experiences involved being called a slur or anything of the sort. However I got tons of ignorant questions such as "Why does you hair do that when it gets wet?" "Africans are closer to apes, right?" "Do you only eat soul food?" and it goes on and on. When you try to equate the White experience of living in America with the Black experience...then this ignorance continues to manifest because it is negated.
And no, I do not use the "n" word. No, the majority of my friends are not even Black. And let me put it this way; White people who truly have experience in a multicultural social circle totally understand (in most cases) the "n" word issue...and wouldn't even debate it like Little Mrs. Hasselbeck did. That's because in many instances they hold more respect for behavioral norms that are culturally unique. I think about my non-Black sorority sisters (I'm in a multicultural sorority) and they have a pretty intimate view of Black culture (in that many have worked with the Black Student Union and Black fraternities/sororities on the same projects). A couple have even been recipients of the word (as in "You're the Whitest ***** I know!") -- yet they do not cry or get frustrated because they cannot use the word.
Another example; some (many?) Jewish people use the word "goy" to describe non-Jews; and "shiksa" to describe a non-Jewish woman. These are derogatory terms at the heart because they translate as stranger/outsider. Yet Jews use these words among themselves all the time. As a convert...I choose not to use the word....since I was born a "goy". Do I get offended at them using the word...no. Does it hurt to hear it being said...sure. However the history of the Jewish people warrants them to use that word. If they are weary of the non-Jewish world around them...they have that right.
Now, back to Black people....I live with my Grandparents, and my 81-year old Grandfather uses the word ****** (or *****....whatever) just about every day. I tell him he should stop, but he responds "Hey, that's what we are". I do not agree; but his reasoning is that we as Black Americans are still getting shafted. We (yes both he and I) get frustrated with walking into a public establishment and having people leer at us or suspect that we are in a place to shoplift. And I do not dress like a thug...I buy my clothes at JCPenny's because I get a discount there...hahaha. My sister works there...and yes, she hears her White co-workers tell her to keep an eye on the Black guys. Yeah, beyond insulting. Hello, but I'm Black! Are you saying that Black people can't be trusted...do you realize who you are talking to?
But the bottom line is "who cares". If Black people wish to perpetuate the "n" word...than fine. I think it is up to us to either own it or disown it. It is our word...and no one else's. Yes, I would be thrilled if it vanished from the face of the earth tomorrow. But that is not going to happen. Just like the vast majority of non-Black Americans will ever need to worry about the world. Welcome to reality people.
When I first move to Texas, A freind and I were jogging when some guys in a pick-up truck drove by and yelled "Run N******". I just stopped running and started laughing. My freind got mad and asked how I could laugh when those people thought that they were better then me. I told him that they thought they were better then him and they weren't talking to me. Saturdays are when the men in the neighborhood in which I live, mow their lawns (those that don't have a service) and get together and gossip like women in a sewing circle. That Saturday, the guys told me about the history of the South and that I should be outraged. I heard it all for more than two hours without a reply. Finally I said that I didn't know and didn't care about those guys in the truck and that those guys weren't good enough to call me that. One guy asked me who was good enough to call me that. I told him that all of my white freinds were good enough to call me that but that none of them ever would. With that, I walked away and went back to sweeping my clippings. They stayed mad at me for months. IMO - Too many people keep picking at scabs from the past and expect them to heal.
Too bad there wasn't more info on the link. I think that Whoopi and Elizabeth both do a good job of stating their views. I'm sure that they're still freinds. Much like this site - It's more about learning than teaching.
I read this post twice. This is exactly the attitude we should all aspire to. The very fact that John was not reactionary to the punk's remark is what made the remark non-credible. The punk in the pick-up truck is the one who needs to learn the lessons of life. John's neighbor's are fortunate to have him. Reps to you, John.
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). When she thinks I'm over doing it, she'll say, "N'igga please!" She wasn't trying to insult me. It is that familiarity that makes it okay with me. I know where she is coming from and we have history together. She is not trying to degrade me is the difference. I honestly don't care who says the word. It is a word. Words are there so that you can express yourself. Of course you can use n/gger to tear someone down, on the same token... you can use fat, ugly, poor, etc for the same effect. Are we trying to not use the word fat now? It just gets all too complicated after a while. 
Lifting the fog
