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Quote:
Originally Posted by manicotti
Statistics can be made to say anything. This is a fine example. How do we know that there really is a correlation between these video games and violence. It is just as likely that the absence of the parents who are using the electronic babysitter can be just as much of a causal factor of the violence and behavior. To be more clear on this point, let me explain further. Most homes where children are exposed to high levels of video games are clearly homes where the parents do not have much interaction with their children. If these parents are not responsible enough to interact with their children, they are most likely deficient in parenting in other areas. That would be the sensible conclusion for me to draw.
Once again, If I may add my two cents worth.....
You are oviously are well versed on this subject and I respect your opinions as you have been able to effectively counter each argument set before you with data. To that end, and all studies and statistics aside, I would like for you to think on this for a second ok?
Lets say we have a couple of youngsters, both at an impressionable age and both suffering from some type of mental disorder. In and of itself, they could fall into a percentage of children or youth that, for the most part function somewhat normally in society with the aid of medication, therapy or both.
Now lets say that these same two young individuals meet and discover a common bond. Violent video games that promote shooting skills, violence against those that would do them wrong, and conflict resolution by way of violence and gun play. Once again in and of itself, they could be just about any youngster out there.
These two young people become immersed in this video game subculture and they start seeing themselves as the role players, only applying the video games rules to everyday life. To make matters worse, they discover a new and exciting world over the internet. By that I mean making explosive and incindiary devices. Add the fact that the ON-Line DOOM subculture is growing exponetially during this time frame and I sure you can see where Im going with this.
In all fairness though, I am of the humble opinion that they are not adequately supervised during this rapid decline of mental consciousness. Thus creating an elitist attitude in one of the two youths while the other adopts a "follower" mentality. Still no parental supervision.
Now understand that the "DOOM" game in and of itself does not cause the next grisly set of circumstances to unfold, but as the investigation unfolded later, it was discovered as one of the main ingredients leading to the root cause of the incident. If you havent figured out by now, the incident was Columbine.
I agree with your points somewhat, however I also believe that the video games that openly promoted violence, coupled with already mentally unbalanced individuals set the wheels in motion for one of the worst tradjedies in American History.
Once again there were many other contributing factors that came into play, but violent video games were a factor. They effectively desensitized these two young men while teaching them hand-eye coordination and trigger control.
I think you will find that in almost every case where there was a school or campus shooting, there were several common denominators that came into play. The indidual(s) were mentally unstable, drugs or alcohol were involved, the individual felt that he or she was treated unfairly, and they had exstensive time in front of the computer or TV playing violent video games. Once again, not the sole cause of the situation, but a contributing factor.
I also noticed that alot of folks laid blame with the parents because of lack of supervision. So how would that apply to someone who is legally an adult and decides to walk into a Luby's and start shooting. My whole point to this is quite simple.
We can play the blame game, we can over analyze this, but one fact still remains. Violent video games are a contributing factor to alot of violence in america today, specifically among younger adults and teens.
I walked into a Best buy one day and they had a demo game on openly promoting violence against our police officers, the degradation of women, and the promotion of the drug culture. How does something like that have any redeeming qualities? Although it is in fact fantasy, it still immerses the player in sounds, sights, and feelings associated with violent behavior. If I had to associate one of these games to a real life experience, I would say it closely matches an actual shoot or dont shoot simulator. The only difference, I saw was that the video game was much more realistic.
In closing, I am enjoying this debate much more than any of the other threads thus far, and I have nothing but the uttemost respect for all of your opinions. I am actually learning a thing or two and will definately check out the "Men against Fire" book as soon as possible. Thanks and God Bless.
My problem with your reasoning is that it is too qualified. You keep on mentioning the abuse of drugs and alcohol, an unstable home life, previous mental problems, economic considerations, interpersonal conflicts, and so on are contributing factors to incidents of violence, yet seem to place more blame on video games than those other factors.
Which seems more likely; a violent, aggressive person is more interested in violent entertainment than non-violent entertainment or a perfectly stable person becomes violent because that person views violent entertainment?
Quote:
I walked into a Best buy one day and they had a demo game on openly promoting violence against our police officers, the degradation of women, and the promotion of the drug culture. How does something like that have any redeeming qualities? Although it is in fact fantasy, it still immerses the player in sounds, sights, and feelings associated with violent behavior. If I had to associate one of these games to a real life experience, I would say it closely matches an actual shoot or dont shoot simulator. The only difference, I saw was that the video game was much more realistic.
I'm guessing you are referring to Grand Theft Auto 4. The fact that you are suggesting it is not without redeeming qualities shows how little you know of it. If you were familiar with the game you would know that the main character is not someone who not very proud of his current career and the game has a very detailed storyline and character development. Also, a lot of the violence and content is handled somewhat tongue-in-cheek and is meant to be taken seriously, yet somewhat repelling at the same time.
Saying GTA IV has no redeeming qualities is like saying The Godfather 1 & 2 are bad movies because it is about the lives of a bunch of racist and violent mobsters who make millions of dollars off of vice and murder their rivals. While that is certainly what the movie is about, there is far more to it than just killing and making otherwise unsympathetic people sympathetic.
Speaking of Grand Theft Auto, people always say that game shows a lot of hostility and violent acts towards women. I don't know why they say that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Carbonni
Winterscorpian,
My problem with your reasoning is that it is too qualified. You keep on mentioning the abuse of drugs and alcohol, an unstable home life, previous mental problems, economic considerations, interpersonal conflicts, and so on are contributing factors to incidents of violence, yet seem to place more blame on video games than those other factors.
Which seems more likely; a violent, aggressive person is more interested in violent entertainment than non-violent entertainment or a perfectly stable person becomes violent because that person views violent entertainment?
I'm guessing you are referring to Grand Theft Auto 4. The fact that you are suggesting it is not without redeeming qualities shows how little you know of it. If you were familiar with the game you would know that the main character is not someone who not very proud of his current career and the game has a very detailed storyline and character development. Also, a lot of the violence and content is handled somewhat tongue-in-cheek and is meant to be taken seriously, yet somewhat repelling at the same time.
Saying GTA IV has no redeeming qualities is like saying The Godfather 1 & 2 are bad movies because it is about the lives of a bunch of racist and violent mobsters who make millions of dollars off of vice and murder their rivals. While that is certainly what the movie is about, there is far more to it than just killing and making otherwise unsympathetic people sympathetic.
Once again, If I may add my two cents worth.....
You are oviously are well versed on this subject and I respect your opinions as you have been able to effectively counter each argument set before you with data. To that end, and all studies and statistics aside, I would like for you to think on this for a second ok?
Lets say we have a couple of youngsters, both at an impressionable age and both suffering from some type of mental disorder. In and of itself, they could fall into a percentage of children or youth that, for the most part function somewhat normally in society with the aid of medication, therapy or both.
Now lets say that these same two young individuals meet and discover a common bond. Violent video games that promote shooting skills, violence against those that would do them wrong, and conflict resolution by way of violence and gun play. Once again in and of itself, they could be just about any youngster out there.
These two young people become immersed in this video game subculture and they start seeing themselves as the role players, only applying the video games rules to everyday life. To make matters worse, they discover a new and exciting world over the internet. By that I mean making explosive and incindiary devices. Add the fact that the ON-Line DOOM subculture is growing exponetially during this time frame and I sure you can see where Im going with this.
In all fairness though, I am of the humble opinion that they are not adequately supervised during this rapid decline of mental consciousness. Thus creating an elitist attitude in one of the two youths while the other adopts a "follower" mentality. Still no parental supervision.
Now understand that the "DOOM" game in and of itself does not cause the next grisly set of circumstances to unfold, but as the investigation unfolded later, it was discovered as one of the main ingredients leading to the root cause of the incident. If you havent figured out by now, the incident was Columbine.
I agree with your points somewhat, however I also believe that the video games that openly promoted violence, coupled with already mentally unbalanced individuals set the wheels in motion for one of the worst tradjedies in American History.
Once again there were many other contributing factors that came into play, but violent video games were a factor. They effectively desensitized these two young men while teaching them hand-eye coordination and trigger control.
I think you will find that in almost every case where there was a school or campus shooting, there were several common denominators that came into play. The indidual(s) were mentally unstable, drugs or alcohol were involved, the individual felt that he or she was treated unfairly, and they had exstensive time in front of the computer or TV playing violent video games. Once again, not the sole cause of the situation, but a contributing factor.
I also noticed that alot of folks laid blame with the parents because of lack of supervision. So how would that apply to someone who is legally an adult and decides to walk into a Luby's and start shooting. My whole point to this is quite simple.
We can play the blame game, we can over analyze this, but one fact still remains. Violent video games are a contributing factor to alot of violence in america today, specifically among younger adults and teens.
I walked into a Best buy one day and they had a demo game on openly promoting violence against our police officers, the degradation of women, and the promotion of the drug culture. How does something like that have any redeeming qualities? Although it is in fact fantasy, it still immerses the player in sounds, sights, and feelings associated with violent behavior. If I had to associate one of these games to a real life experience, I would say it closely matches an actual shoot or dont shoot simulator. The only difference, I saw was that the video game was much more realistic.
In closing, I am enjoying this debate much more than any of the other threads thus far, and I have nothing but the uttemost respect for all of your opinions. I am actually learning a thing or two and will definately check out the "Men against Fire" book as soon as possible. Thanks and God Bless.
As you respect my opinion, I also respect yours. My issue is somewhat related in part to what another contributor on here stated. The controls of video games do not aid in the actual use of weapons. I can assure you in this matter. The vast majority use buttons. The video games that utilize a plastic gun are generally very far off the mark in terms of accuracy. Beyond this, there is no recoil, and no match in terms of actual weight. There is no training on loading an actual weapon or using one, even something as simple as disengaging the safety catch. I find the correlation between violence and video games to be extremely difficult to even prove. Violent video games are played by a great deal of the children out there today. I would still have to say that the prime factor would be poor parenting. As for the adult who walks in to a store and starts executing people, I would still have to say the individual's childhood, most of the time, makes all the difference. Of course there are instances when an individual has these problems due to various factors, such as brain tumors, head injuries and genetic defects. Violent video games by themselves can not, in my opinion, be a contributing factor to an actual incidence of violence. Movies have been quite violent for about as long as there have been "talkie" pictures. The people who commit these crimes and say they got an idea from a movie, are already disturbed. These types of mentally ill people can get a violent idea from just about anything, up to and including a voice in their head. Thank you for your reply. I enjoy the debate and the discussion.
All you've done is add in more variables. It doesn't negate the impact of the observations from the study. All it does is hypothesize that other attributes, such as lack of parental supervision may also contribute toward more violent behavior. My guess is it does too, but that requires another study which isolates this specific attribute within an otherwise controlled environment.
It doesn't negate the observations from his study.
It demonstrates the inability of a study to prove a real and absolute correlation between video game violence and real violence. This is a simple fact of statistics and biased study. These are not my own hypotheses. These are real and actual flaws with the science of statistics. Many children have played violent video games, and very few of these children commit the violent acts that are depicted and carried out in these video games. If such were the case, we would have more murderers than not in our country today. Society would cease to function.
Honestly, I believe parents have stopped parenting effectively and children are not learning respect for themselves, others or life in general. So, once again, it falls on our shoulders, fellow parents.
Honestly, I believe parents have stopped parenting effectively and children are not learning respect for themselves, others or life in general. So, once again, it falls on our shoulders, fellow parents.
Words of Gold. I don't think anyone could have cut to the point any more effectively. Thank you!
Once again, If I may add my two cents worth.....
You are oviously are well versed on this subject and I respect your opinions as you have been able to effectively counter each argument set before you with data. To that end, and all studies and statistics aside, I would like for you to think on this for a second ok?
Lets say we have a couple of youngsters, both at an impressionable age and both suffering from some type of mental disorder. In and of itself, they could fall into a percentage of children or youth that, for the most part function somewhat normally in society with the aid of medication, therapy or both.
Now lets say that these same two young individuals meet and discover a common bond. Violent video games that promote shooting skills, violence against those that would do them wrong, and conflict resolution by way of violence and gun play. Once again in and of itself, they could be just about any youngster out there.
These two young people become immersed in this video game subculture and they start seeing themselves as the role players, only applying the video games rules to everyday life. To make matters worse, they discover a new and exciting world over the internet. By that I mean making explosive and incindiary devices. Add the fact that the ON-Line DOOM subculture is growing exponetially during this time frame and I sure you can see where Im going with this.
In all fairness though, I am of the humble opinion that they are not adequately supervised during this rapid decline of mental consciousness. Thus creating an elitist attitude in one of the two youths while the other adopts a "follower" mentality. Still no parental supervision.
Now understand that the "DOOM" game in and of itself does not cause the next grisly set of circumstances to unfold, but as the investigation unfolded later, it was discovered as one of the main ingredients leading to the root cause of the incident. If you havent figured out by now, the incident was Columbine.
I agree with your points somewhat, however I also believe that the video games that openly promoted violence, coupled with already mentally unbalanced individuals set the wheels in motion for one of the worst tradjedies in American History.
Once again there were many other contributing factors that came into play, but violent video games were a factor. They effectively desensitized these two young men while teaching them hand-eye coordination and trigger control.
I think you will find that in almost every case where there was a school or campus shooting, there were several common denominators that came into play. The indidual(s) were mentally unstable, drugs or alcohol were involved, the individual felt that he or she was treated unfairly, and they had exstensive time in front of the computer or TV playing violent video games. Once again, not the sole cause of the situation, but a contributing factor.
I also noticed that alot of folks laid blame with the parents because of lack of supervision. So how would that apply to someone who is legally an adult and decides to walk into a Luby's and start shooting. My whole point to this is quite simple.
We can play the blame game, we can over analyze this, but one fact still remains. Violent video games are a contributing factor to alot of violence in america today, specifically among younger adults and teens.
I walked into a Best buy one day and they had a demo game on openly promoting violence against our police officers, the degradation of women, and the promotion of the drug culture. How does something like that have any redeeming qualities? Although it is in fact fantasy, it still immerses the player in sounds, sights, and feelings associated with violent behavior. If I had to associate one of these games to a real life experience, I would say it closely matches an actual shoot or dont shoot simulator. The only difference, I saw was that the video game was much more realistic.
In closing, I am enjoying this debate much more than any of the other threads thus far, and I have nothing but the uttemost respect for all of your opinions. I am actually learning a thing or two and will definately check out the "Men against Fire" book as soon as possible. Thanks and God Bless.
if you would have taken time to look, games DO have a rating systems similar to movies. And Bestbuy does check ID's before selling these games, if the game is rated at NC-17, they WILL not sell it to someone that cannot prove they are over the age of 17. Where the blame is well placed on the parents is there willingness to purchase games with these ratings to children under the age decided upon to play them. Much like parents who buy rated R movies for there 10 year olds.
Bestbuy and Comp USA were and are very very good at checking the age of the purchaser of these violent games.
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