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No, he would NEVER stay home and look after a baby. Most men don't want to do that. It's not in their nature.
Postcards from the stereotypical edge. Obviously, each of us lives in a world that is very different from the one experienced by the other. Perhaps each of us should be glad of that. I most certainly am...
Postcards from the stereotypical edge. Obviously, each of us lives in a world that is very different from the one experienced by the other. Perhaps each of us should be glad of that. I most certainly am...
You honestly believe that most men want to stay home and take care of little kids while their wife works? Really? I am assuming that you are a man and a very "evolved" one, but the vast majority would not even consider doing this.
Right. How much time do men waste just yacking about sports? Could it be as much as five hours per week, do you think? How much time do single women waste on chitty-chat, flirting, and doing and then re-doing their makeup? How much time do YOU waste on stuff that has importance to you but isn't exactly covered in your performance plan?
Married women with children are no more or less likely to be found goofing off in the workforce than anyone else is, yourself included. The only difference is what happens to be important to them. Their kids. Not football...
You are making my point. I want everyone treated EQUALLY. If a guy takes off for "parenting" for a couple of years he gets back in line. If a guy blathers his day away setting up fishing dates, he should be canned or not promoted.
I don't like the "fair" pay scheme the left is setting up where they try to make a lot of accomdations for women to make it "fair". For example, a woman should be able to take off 1.5 years for a baby then come back at the same pay as the men/women who did not take that time off...because it's not fair for her to be penalized for reproduction/child care. I'm not buying into this squishy "fairness" crap. Same as the "fairness doctrine". These liberal ploys are any thing but fair. I want everyone treated equal by what they bring to the table.
Elmonellie, the point is not whether most men want to stay home and take care of little kids while the wife works. The point is do most women want to stay home and take care of little kids while the husband works? You seem to think that what the man wants should take precedence over what the woman wants simply because he's a man and she's a woman. And while the OP posited that women's liberation opened the doors for women, and I argue that it was more the result of social changes that resulted from the industrial revolution, the fact is that society has changed, and one of those changes is that women don't think that the man is more valuable, more important than she is. It's not only about thinking that women and men are equals, it's about affording women the same freedoms that men have always enjoyed, and giving women the opportunity to make the same contributions that men have been able to do.
You are making my point. I want everyone treated EQUALLY. If a guy takes off for "parenting" for a couple of years he gets back in line. If a guy blathers his day away setting up fishing dates, he should be canned or not promoted.
I don't like the "fair" pay scheme the left is setting up where they try to make a lot of accomdations for women to make it "fair". For example, a woman should be able to take off 1.5 years for a baby then come back at the same pay as the men/women who did not take that time off...because it's not fair for her to be penalized for reproduction/child care. I'm not buying into this squishy "fairness" crap. Same as the "fairness doctrine". These liberal ploys are any thing but fair. I want everyone treated equal by what they bring to the table.
Ya, that icky FAIRNESS will really make a mess of America
So you think men should automatically be paid more than women based on what they "might" do and women should be paid less based on what they "might" do....
...Ignoring qualifications, education, experience, competence, talent , abilities...ya, and if that happened to YOU you'd be singing a different tune
Ever held a job????Or been supported(bought) by a male all your life?
Has it ever occured to you that people be judged on their performance AFTER they perform???
You think it's fair to hire someone at less pay because they have a vagina and pay someone else more because they have a penis ??? WEIRD!!!!
Is sex the only thing you think about??
Conservatives have certainly done their job when a woman hates women as much as you do....another poor doormat worshipping at the phallic altar.
You are making my point. I want everyone treated EQUALLY. If a guy takes off for "parenting" for a couple of years he gets back in line. If a guy blathers his day away setting up fishing dates, he should be canned or not promoted.
I don't like the "fair" pay scheme the left is setting up where they try to make a lot of accomdations for women to make it "fair". For example, a woman should be able to take off 1.5 years for a baby then come back at the same pay as the men/women who did not take that time off...because it's not fair for her to be penalized for reproduction/child care. I'm not buying into this squishy "fairness" crap. Same as the "fairness doctrine". These liberal ploys are any thing but fair. I want everyone treated equal by what they bring to the table.
What about the woman who isn't married, who doesn't have children? She brings it to the table. Years ago, I applied for a job at a major corporation. At the same time I had a brother who also placed an application. I was a college graduate, and I also worked all four years I was in college. I was single, available to relocate, and well qualified. I was offered a job as a secretary. My brother, who had dropped out of high school to marry a pregnant girlfriend, had obtained his GED and had been working, but his work history was a little shorter than mine because he was younger. But he was offered the entry-level management position.
Even when offered the same job, it has been my experience that women are offered less pay than men. I asked an HR director directly about this once, and was told that the man had a family to support, I didn't, so he needed more money. I've also been explicitly told that I didn't need as much money because one day I'll meet a good man and get married, and he'll be bringing in the big paycheck.
You want to cast this as a liberal agenda, and that women aren't entitled to the same pay for doing the same job because their other responsibilities interfere with job performance. Nowadays, men also leave work early to pick up their kids because their wives can't. Nowadays, men are just as likely to take off the afternoon for a parents/teacher conference. And workplaces have been accommodating employees for a long time. It's not just women who have doctors' appointments, or have to attend closings when they are buying or selling a home, or have plumbers and electricians and cable guys coming to the house for service calls. And I know quite a few executives who like a long weekend, or need a break in the week to play golf. Where I live I've seen entire businesses close for the day because it happens to be the first day of deer-hunting season, and so many of the guys wanted to take personal days or vacation or were even prepared to call in sick. Moms aren't the only employees that want time off. And the year and a half off maternity leave you keep citing must be a regional thing, because here most women feel lucky if they get two months.
You honestly believe that most men want to stay home and take care of little kids while their wife works? Really?
I'm concerned over the naked ego that would let you bind all women or all men into whatever roles you happen to think most of them prefer. I would much rather eliminate your thinking from the equation entirely, allowing each man and each woman to have themselves the joint and individual freedom as applicable to make the decisions that they deem to be the most appropriate to their own circumstances. These are the freedoms that the women's rights movement had to fight for. You speak as some sort of relic who has never lost the taste for days of stereotype and chauvinism now long gone by.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmonellie
I am assuming that you are a man and a very "evolved" one, but the vast majority would not even consider doing this.
You assume the one thing correctly at least. As to the second part, it occurs to me that you must be acquainted with a very different and likely far more limited range of men than I am.
Well, there is a bit of a tradeoff that may need to be considered here.
We can approach the discussion from what is best for the specific individuals, to optimize their lives. However, when kids get involved, what might be best for the individuals might not be what is in the kid's best interest too.
Well, there is a bit of a tradeoff that may need to be considered here.
We can approach the discussion from what is best for the specific individuals, to optimize their lives. However, when kids get involved, what might be best for the individuals might not be what is in the kid's best interest too.
You are right, but since the OP is about women's liberation's impact on the family, it is fair to point out that there are two parents making decisions that affect the child. Why should the male parent always be the one with the freedom to optimize his life, but the female parent be denied that same freedom?
No, he would NEVER stay home and look after a baby. Most men don't want to do that. It's not in their nature.
No offense, but you obviously can't make enough money for him to stay home. I bet that if you made $500K, your husband would stay home in a heartbeat! He might be too *****whipped to say so, but he would.
Why wouldn't a man want to stay home and cootchi coo with their baby? Are you implying they don't want to spend time with them?
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