yeah, spank those kids!! (generations, drug, wisdom, bill)

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by happ

Yeah, that's a great example since the Soviets approved of beating children - DUH! Do yourself a favor & get back into school so your can erase your ignorance STAT! Otherwise don't bring any more children into the world.

The Soviets removed children and sent them to education camps - they took them away from their families - as you suggest.

OBTW - as a man who's son and wife were killed - and who was a single parent with a newborn (who was born as his mother died) - I'm very sensitive to children - far more than you imagine

[cremebrulee]

[quote]

Originally Posted by happ

That's a mouthful that suggests a lot of frustration that I also share with you. But when you say it doesn't work so go ahead and hit your own kids then I must caution that you are at risk for losing your grandkids from visiting with you some day. And how do you know it doesn’t work based on one experience with a foster child [who as you mentioned was hit by adults? In all due respect, your logic is flawed & based on emotion rather than reasoning.

He wasn't hit by adults, he was BEAT UP BY ADULTS...when are you going to learn, it is a totally different issue...I'm not hitting my kid, I spanked him...3 times...that is not lifting him up, turning him upside down and slamming him against a tree...why doesn't your cause arrest his good for nothing parents instead of picking on the wrong people? I would never hit my grand daughter, I never had need to...and no sir, my logic isn't flawed, it is very responsible, and learned through experience...many years of study and consulting with professionals...I am proud to say, I sir, am a bit more logical then you will ever be. Unfortunately...you take use a kid whose been beat up all their lives and use his situation to win a trivial case against the real parents of this country, who still believe a child should be seen and not heard. A kid's attention span is next to nill, so you can explain to them, until the cows come home and most of the time, they simply tune you out.

And frustrated, you betcha...with the likes of you, who have ruined our systems...

To even suggest that the world is worse off because parents don't whip their kids enough is a poor reflection on your ability to change the way you do things. I understand the emotion this subject brings up [no one likes to be corrected & told to do things differently]. If we don't do what our boss\ company wants us to do we will be fired. We either learn the new way or lose our job.

I am not adverse to change, however, there are a lot of issues that you have taken and completely distorted them to make your point, for instance, in your last paragraph, you say, WHIP, again, a gross exhauggeration to prove your point...you actually fear saying the word spanking. Again, you can and will correct me until the cows come home and it won't change my stance on this subject....your not correcting me...your using distortions to prove your point, so please, in all decency, don't patronize me, I'm not a little kid and I know perfectly well. My child is not my income, he is in fact, my liabilty and responsiblity, if he screws up, it is my fault....however, I have no problem or adversity to change on my job..again, another poor example, your grasping at straws.

So how come parenting is any different? The most important job in the world is guiding\ caring for our children\grandchildren. Why get all reactionary & look back on what we did as OK when it clearly isn't OK.

I did ok, and I'll never say anything different, now, your even trying to put words in my mouth, I was a better then ok parent...I'm very proud to say.

Once again, when anti-spanking laws are implemented I strongly suggest you take a course in effective parenting & be prepared to give the best to your children instead of relying on emotional outbursts worse & more damaging than any child's tantrum.

It will never fly, what your going to do, is create a situation, to enable kids, who have not yet matured and realized the consequences for their actions...so now everytime, they want their way, they will threaten their parents to turn them in claiming they've been spanked. Thats what you will do, talk about a tantrum...good job...you should be proud.

Darlin, I raised my child, and I did took the courses, and I read a lot of physc books, don't try and belittle me, I'm a lot older then you are and have had a lot more experience under neath my belt, it doesn't make me any better then you, but what it does say, is, that I consider myself, at that time a much better parent then you. I've been around a lot of kids...and I can pick out the abused ones...ones that you really don't care about, that your way to busy trying to outlaw a spanking...why don't you take all that energy and put it to good use, and get criminals (parents who beat up their children) off the streets. Why don't you fight for a cause, so those parents are NOT allowed to have any more children. Our foster child had a brother, and they were seperated...what a system, huh.

Frustrated, you betcha...very frustrated with the way this country is going...it has gotten much worse, much worse, and it's going to get even worse. Kids today, don't know what respect is...society today, are illogical as you are...we've lost education and intellectual skills...we've lost compassion and teaching our kids manners...kids run rampid, you talk to police and find out how many kids are sneaking out of the house in the middle of the night and they're parents, either don't care or dont' know. It is people like you, who are making my son's job even more dangerous and exhausting, b/c he is constantly rearresting repeated offenders...oh, that's a good way to spend our money and get my son killed...

Kids today, don't even know how to hold a door open for you...they bunch together and almost run you over trying to get out of a store, they have no knowledge of which door is the in door and which door is the out door, they don't know how to work for what they want, but they sure want the big bucks. They don't know how to pick up a shovel and go shovel off the pavement for their little ol lady of a neighbor, instead they're playing computer games...parents don't know how to teach their kids to be thoughtful, or to teach them the concept of how working together as a team, as a society, gets the job done, they are not taught how their actions effect everyone else...and what's more, they don't care. They steal, they cheat, they get by, and that's it...they're lazy, they need to be driven to school, instead of walk..every single day like we did...your parenting skills have lost the romance in teaching kids to behave, to sit still and be quiet...they can't...they don't know how. That is good parenting skills???? I think not? You go into a doctors office and they are literally running all over the place...

please..dont' get me started...my parenting job is done...thank goodness...I am so thankful I don't have kids in this day and age...and I can't imagine, what it's going to be like in my GD's time, b/c of people like you.

Sorry, I mean no insult, but that is what I believe...you want to interfer with society, have it your way, at all costs....and your doing nothing for the really abused and sexually molested kids...nada?



I'm proud to say, I'm not Republican, Democrate or Libratarian...

[happ]

Originally Posted by Greatday

The Soviets removed children and sent them to education camps - they took them away from their families - as you suggest.

OBTW - as a man who's son and wife were killed - and who was a single parent with a newborn (who was born as his mother died) - I'm very sensitive to children - far more than you imagine

I'm very sorry for your loss. Remember I am not saying anyone on this board is abusing their children. Instead, I am encouraging that we consider another way in dealing with kids. We know the kind of children today are more insecure by way of divorce\ single-parenting w/ not enough solid family time/ nurturing\ more violent unstable world then 20 yrs ago. Anything that can be done to protect families is the priority.

We need pre-school / after-school programs that provide sports\ tutoring\ art\ music for all school kids who have working parents. The kids are in a safe setting & positive peers. This is the law in California since 2004 but hasn't been implemented due to high cost. But the idea is great that all public parks\ basketball courts\ play fields are supervised by adults & kept open beyond sunset.

Guess I'm getting off the subject

[happ]

[quote=cremebrulee;4628172]

He wasn't hit by adults, he was BEAT UP BY ADULTS...when are you going to learn, it is a totally different issue...I'm not hitting my kid, I spanked him...3 times...that is not lifting him up, turning him upside down and slamming him against a tree...why doesn't your cause arrest his good for nothing parents instead of picking on the wrong people? I would never hit my grand daughter, I never had need to...and no sir, my logic isn't flawed, it is very responsible, and learned through experience...many years of study and consulting with professionals...I am proud to say, I sir, am a bit more logical then you will ever be. Unfortunately...you take use a kid whose been beat up all their lives and use his situation to win a trivial case against the real parents of this country, who still believe a child should be seen and not heard. A kid's attention span is next to nill, so you can explain to them, until the cows come home and most of the time, they simply tune you out.

And frustrated, you betcha...with the likes of you, who have ruined our systems...



I am not adverse to change, however, there are a lot of issues that you have taken and completely distorted them to make your point, for instance, in your last paragraph, you say, WHIP, again, a gross exhauggeration to prove your point...you actually fear saying the word spanking. Again, you can and will correct me until the cows come home and it won't change my stance on this subject....your not correcting me...your using distortions to prove your point, so please, in all decency, don't patronize me, I'm not a little kid and I know perfectly well. My child is not my income, he is in fact, my liabilty and responsiblity, if he screws up, it is my fault....however, I have no problem or adversity to change on my job..again, another poor example, your grasping at straws.



I did ok, and I'll never say anything different, now, your even trying to put words in my mouth, I was a better then ok parent...I'm very proud to say.



It will never fly, what your going to do, is create a situation, to enable kids, who have not yet matured and realized the consequences for their actions...so now everytime, they want their way, they will threaten their parents to turn them in claiming they've been spanked. Thats what you will do, talk about a tantrum...good job...you should be proud.

Darlin, I raised my child, and I did took the courses, and I read a lot of physc books, don't try and belittle me, I'm a lot older then you are and have had a lot more experience under neath my belt, it doesn't make me any better then you, but what it does say, is, that I consider myself, at that time a much better parent then you. I've been around a lot of kids...and I can pick out the abused ones...ones that you really don't care about, that your way to busy trying to outlaw a spanking...why don't you take all that energy and put it to good use, and get criminals (parents who beat up their children) off the streets. Why don't you fight for a cause, so those parents are NOT allowed to have any more children. Our foster child had a brother, and they were seperated...what a system, huh.

Frustrated, you betcha...very frustrated with the way this country is going...it has gotten much worse, much worse, and it's going to get even worse. Kids today, don't know what respect is...society today, are illogical as you are...we've lost education and intellectual skills...we've lost compassion and teaching our kids manners...kids run rampid, you talk to police and find out how many kids are sneaking out of the house in the middle of the night and they're parents, either don't care or dont' know. It is people like you, who are making my son's job even more dangerous and exhausting, b/c he is constantly rearresting repeated offenders...oh, that's a good way to spend our money and get my son killed...

Kids today, don't even know how to hold a door open for you...they bunch together and almost run you over trying to get out of a store, they have no knowledge of which door is the in door and which door is the out door, they don't know how to work for what they want, but they sure want the big bucks. They don't know how to pick up a shovel and go shovel off the pavement for their little ol lady of a neighbor, instead they're playing computer games...parents don't know how to teach their kids to be thoughtful, or to teach them the concept of how working together as a team, as a society, gets the job done, they are not taught how their actions effect everyone else...and what's more, they don't care. They steal, they cheat, they get by, and that's it...they're lazy, they need to be driven to school, instead of walk..every single day like we did...your parenting skills have lost the romance in teaching kids to behave, to sit still and be quiet...they can't...they don't know how. That is good parenting skills???? I think not? You go into a doctors office and they are literally running all over the place...

please..dont' get me started...my parenting job is done...thank goodness...I am so thankful I don't have kids in this day and age...and I can't imagine, what it's going to be like in my GD's time, b/c of people like you.

Sorry, I mean no insult, but that is what I believe...you want to interfer with society, have it your way, at all costs....and your doing nothing for the really abused and sexually molested kids...nada?



I'm proud to say, I'm not Republican, Democrate or Libratarian...

I appreciate your thoughtful statements & again: I am not using you as an example of an abusive parent [on the contrary, you are obviously a good mom You have nothing to worry about b/c clearly your son is very important to you.

The issue of child discipline will continue for some time but not that far off for us to be prepared to consider another parenting approach that doesn't include physical pain. BTW, both of my parents\ all my uncles-aunts were punished until they bled & that was considered good parenting.

[nat_at772]

Originally Posted by happ

When our daughter acted-out in the market [which she did btw] then we made plans to not take her to the market & explained that to her. She understood that there would be consequences for inappropriate behavior [ie loss of toys\ time-outs\ lost of privileges]. These were very effective because my wife & I worked together as a team & were consistent in setting limits as well as much praise\ positive re-enforcement.

I'm sorry but I don't consider that an option. I won't let my child dictate my schedule. A lot of times I'll do as many chores as I can in one day so we can have the next day to do kid friendly fun family stuff; so no I can't just sit home and waste my weekend because my toddler decides he wants an ice cream and I have to go home and put him in time-out.

Things like birthday parties at chuck e cheese and going to the park with my neighbors - that I can understand. You've misbehaved so now you can't go. But not going to the grocery store? Who's that going to hurt? Do you think my son is really going to care if he can't go to the grocery store? What about when I want to go to church? The laundromat? The doctor? The barbershop?

Yes, it would be easier to leave him at home but he won't always get that option so I need him to learn proper behavior at an early age.

[cremebrulee]

[

quote=happ;4627161]I am offering alternative ways to parent children yet get excuses rather than open minds. Do you do what your parents did even if it is harmful? Would you dare let your child not wear a seat belt in the car? Would you hand your kids over to a babysitter w/o knowing about her beforehand?

YOU are offering alternative ways???? In all due respect, who, might exactly, do you think you are???? And open minds, Your mind is closed to everything we've offered...and no, what my parents did is NOT harmful and I take offense, full offense, because your saying MY parents were not good parents...they were, the best in the world...they did nothing that was harmful and you are the one going round and round with the same words, like harmful, violent, abuse...etc. Your mind is totally closed as well...You are not me, and just because I believe and do, something different then you, b/c you do not agree, it must be wrong? Sheeesh, if it isn't God almighty himself?

If we can not provide the very best for our children why be parents? They are not our property. So much of what I read sound archaic/ primitive.

archaic and primitiave...the world is worse, b/c you choose to not discipline your kids, you choose to let them run all over creation....you choose to allow them to dictate to you, what they want, you choose to talk to them until the day is long and they've turned you off on the 4th word you spoke...you choose to be who you are and I choose to be who I am, there is nothing archaic and primitive about that...and parents have been spanking their children since the beginning of time...some haven't. Fine...but stop trying to control the world, just b/c you believe in something that isn't working...which has made this world worse, with a bunch of young people who think it's so sad that a criminal must do time for his offense. Where kids are lazy, and they want the big bucks b/c they've gone to college, but have no hands on experience, and never worked a day in their lives...

When our daughter acted-out in the market [which she did btw] then we made plans to not take her to the market & explained that to her. She understood that there would be consequences for inappropriate behavior [ie loss of toys\ time-outs\ lost of privileges]. These were very effective because my wife & I worked together as a team & were consistent in setting limits as well as much praise\ positive re-enforcement.

oh, I'm certain, not taking her to the market really made her sad...nice approach...like my hairdresser I had years ago...her daughter kept running away from home, so she took all her posters down in her bedroom. Oh, I bet that really made her stop and think huh?

I still don't understand how one can justify hitting a child yet consider such behavior inappropriate for adults. Can someone please explain?

because it is NOT hitting...it is not child abuse, it is not spanking and you don't deserve an explaination, as everyone back throughout this thread has explained why...take it or leave it...period. You can't/won't seem to grasp the logic....you need to use graphic words which are over the top to prove your point...you need to post links to articles that describe the horror of an abused child...which has nothing to do with spanking a child...you are closed minded to the fact that a parent who spanks their child are bad parents...

[nat_at772]

Originally Posted by cremebrulee

[

YOU are offering alternative ways???? In all due respect, who, might exactly, do you think you are???? And open minds, Your mind is closed to everything we've offered...and no, what my parents did is NOT harmful and I take offense, full offense, because your saying MY parents were not good parents...they were, the best in the world...they did nothing that was harmful and you are the one going round and round with the same words, like harmful, violent, abuse...etc. Your mind is totally closed as well...You are not me, and just because I believe and do, something different then you, b/c you do not agree, it must be wrong? Sheeesh, if it isn't God almighty himself?

archaic and primitiave...the world is worse, b/c you choose to not discipline your kids, you choose to let them run all over creation....you choose to allow them to dictate to you, what they want, you choose to talk to them until the day is long and they've turned you off on the 4th word you spoke...you choose to be who you are and I choose to be who I am, there is nothing archaic and primitive about that...and parents have been spanking their children since the beginning of time...some haven't. Fine...but stop trying to control the world, just b/c you believe in something that isn't working...which has made this world worse, with a bunch of young people who think it's so sad that a criminal must do time for his offense. Where kids are lazy, and they want the big bucks b/c they've gone to college, but have no hands on experience, and never worked a day in their lives...


because it is NOT hitting...it is not child abuse, it is not spanking and you don't deserve an explaination, as everyone back throughout this thread has explained why...take it or leave it...period. You can't/won't seem to grasp the logic....you need to use graphic words which are over the top to prove your point...you need to post links to articles that describe the horror of an abused child...which has nothing to do with spanking a child...you are closed minded to the fact that a parent who spanks their child are bad parents...

Bravo

[Siobjuan]

spank[SIZE=1]1[/SIZE] Audio Help/spæŋk/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[spangk]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation,
–verb (used with object)
1.to strike (a person, usually a child) with the open hand, a slipper, etc., esp. on the buttocks, as in punishment.
–noun
beat Audio Help/bit/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[beet]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, beat, beat·en or beat, beat·ing, noun, adjective –verb (used with object)
1.to strike violently or forcefully and repeatedly.


There are always going to be people who don't see the difference in the two above definitions. There are always going to be parents who do. I'm willing to bet the parents that do (know the difference and apply a spank when needed) end up with better adjusted children.

[happ]

Originally Posted by cremebrulee

[

YOU are offering alternative ways???? In all due respect, who, might exactly, do you think you are???? And open minds, Your mind is closed to everything we've offered...and no, what my parents did is NOT harmful and I take offense, full offense, because your saying MY parents were not good parents...they were, the best in the world...they did nothing that was harmful and you are the one going round and round with the same words, like harmful, violent, abuse...etc. Your mind is totally closed as well...You are not me, and just because I believe and do, something different then you, b/c you do not agree, it must be wrong? Sheeesh, if it isn't God almighty himself?



archaic and primitiave...the world is worse, b/c you choose to not discipline your kids, you choose to let them run all over creation....you choose to allow them to dictate to you, what they want, you choose to talk to them until the day is long and they've turned you off on the 4th word you spoke...you choose to be who you are and I choose to be who I am, there is nothing archaic and primitive about that...and parents have been spanking their children since the beginning of time...some haven't. Fine...but stop trying to control the world, just b/c you believe in something that isn't working...which has made this world worse, with a bunch of young people who think it's so sad that a criminal must do time for his offense. Where kids are lazy, and they want the big bucks b/c they've gone to college, but have no hands on experience, and never worked a day in their lives...



oh, I'm certain, not taking her to the market really made her sad...nice approach...like my hairdresser I had years ago...her daughter kept running away from home, so she took all her posters down in her bedroom. Oh, I bet that really made her stop and think huh?




because it is NOT hitting...it is not child abuse, it is not spanking and you don't deserve an explaination, as everyone back throughout this thread has explained why...take it or leave it...period. You can't/won't seem to grasp the logic....you need to use graphic words which are over the top to prove your point...you need to post links to articles that describe the horror of an abused child...which has nothing to do with spanking a child...you are closed minded to the fact that a parent who spanks their child are bad parents...

Whatever live in the past!

[tnprincess]

I think we should look around us. It's obvious that children are suffering. Why are they suffering?

No structure in the home. Absentee parents? Parents trying to be "friends" with their children instead of strong leaders, lack of dicipline in the home, not only children but parents are lacking in dicipline in that it takes consistency to parent in a sucessful manner. Children are not able to make decisions for themselves! If I let my child tell me what he wants to do, he wouldn't go to school, eat decent, or even take a shower, let alone know how to decide to behave. He NEEDS me to do that for him. I'm training my child. Obviously, not enough of that is going on or children wouldn't be in the trouble they're in.

I think Father's need to step up. I don't really think men realize the role that they play in their children's lives. Father's are so important. They are the factor, I believe, that can shape how a child feels about themselves even more so than a mother!

I think spanking can be harmful to a child when used inappropriately. Spanking a child just because you're angry is wrong. A child who is allowed to run rampant with NO guidance, and THEN spanked when a parent has completely lost it would be harmful. At that point a parent isn't diciplining out of love, but instead because they've had it!

I think to equate spanking with child abuse is narrow. I know many loving and good parents that will spank a child ON THEIR BOTTOM to get their point across. That is not child abuse, and to say that all spankings are "beatings" or that parents who occassionally spank their children are abusive is wrong.

I don't understand the mentality. If you had witnessed REAL abuse...you would KNOW the difference between a parent who diciplines out of love in a loving way, and one who abuses a child.

People on here that are talking about the government making decisions for parents need to stop and think. How many rights are you willing to give away? Does anyone around here realize what could happen? The government should work for US, not the other way around. A government FOR THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE.

Individual rights are my American heritage, and they're all of yours as well. If you want to keep them, I suggest you stop giving your rights over...hand over fist, once you get the ball rolling, it's hard to make it stop.