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Old 07-27-2008, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
14,044 posts, read 27,113,773 times
Reputation: 7373

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
I think I got dumber by watching that video if that's possible. I got out way before it eneded because my last few brain cells were about to commit suicide.
Pretty much my sentiment too, rambling about hidden agenda's again.

One thing most folks would disagree with me about, I think if 9/11 never happened we never would have gone into Iraq. Not saying that Saddam was the cause at all here for the 9/11 stuff, but if the 9/11 attack hadn't happened, I would bet the Iraq invasion never would have happened either (and Saddam would still be their "leader").

And no, I don't believe Bush and "fill in the blank(s)" staged 9/11 to create an excuse for Iraq...
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Old 07-27-2008, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,624 posts, read 19,043,350 times
Reputation: 21728
Quote:
Originally Posted by GigiBowman View Post
Vincent Bugliosi before HJC for Bush Impeachment
His argument is baseless. The crux of his argument is "fraud."

For all civil and criminal prosecutions, there are "elements of proof." Those are the things you have to prove in order to get a conviction on a specific charge or a finding of guilty in civil prosecution.

For example, one of the several elements of proof for burglary is that it took place during the hours of darkness. As a prosecutor, you'd have to get the tables from the US Naval Observatory that show sunrise and sunset for the latitude and longitude where the crime occurred and prove that it took place after sunset. If you can't prove that, you can't get a conviction on burglary.

For fraud, the elements of proof are that

(a) a representation or, where there is a duty to disclose, concealment of a fact,
(b) which is material to the transaction at hand,
(c) made falsely, with knowledge of its falsity, or with such utter disregard and recklessness as to whether it is true or false that knowledge may be inferred,
(d) with the intent of misleading another into relying upon it,
(e) justifiable reliance upon the representation or concealment, and
(f) a resulting injury proximately caused by the reliance.


The key to understanding is the operand, "where there is a duty to disclose.

No president has a legal or constitutional duty or obligation to disclose to the American people or to Congress material facts relating to military operational plans, matters of national security, information classified as vital to national security or US geo-political/military strategy.

In fact, such a duty would be contrary to a president's duties and obligations under the US Constitution and public laws, resulting in a violation of the US Constitution and/or such public laws.

Bush had a reason to invade Iraq. Whatever the reason, he's under no obligation nor is he legally or constitutionally compelled to tell you the real reason. It's sufficient that a number of high ranking and powerful senators and representatives of both the Democrat and Republican parties agreed with the Bush Administration's reasoning.

Some of you don't understand that all congresspersons are not privy to all information at all times. Rank and seniority does have its privileges, and in Congress, that includes being kept "in the loop" with respect to matters of national security.

Most of you seemed to have missed the connection when Nancy Pelosi did a complete about face after she was elevated from garden-variety congressperson to Speak of the House, a very important and powerful position, which required taking her into confidence and informing her of things she hadn't been made privy to while she was a lowly congressperson.

Once she learned the real reasons for invading Iraq, she wasn't about to do something stupid that would damage her or the Democrat Party. That's why she backed off.
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Old 07-27-2008, 03:23 PM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,336,828 times
Reputation: 4798
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
Pretty much my sentiment too, rambling about hidden agenda's again.

One thing most folks would disagree with me about, I think if 9/11 never happened we never would have gone into Iraq. Not saying that Saddam was the cause at all here for the 9/11 stuff, but if the 9/11 attack hadn't happened, I would bet the Iraq invasion never would have happened either (and Saddam would still be their "leader").

And no, I don't believe Bush and "fill in the blank(s)" staged 9/11 to create an excuse for Iraq...
People forget the feeling the nation had right after 9/11....

People blame Bush for trying to be pro active and stop what many other presidents felt was collateral damage. They call him all kinds of names without thinking back to those critical times when 300 million people are looking at you for an answer.
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Old 07-31-2008, 03:32 PM
 
1,555 posts, read 1,973,072 times
Reputation: 257
Default read a newspaper...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
While I clearly agree with you, I suspect that the true motivation is payback for how Bill Clinton was treated during his second term. I think that the Democrats are basically "getting even".

I also think they want this stuff to be part of the coming election discussions.
Payback for Bill Clinton? Um, no. how about the simple fact that Bush SHOULD by all rights be impeached and convicted? Have you been listening to the world around you? He is a WAR CRIMINAL.

Now, that said, I think it would not be cost effective or time-efficient to actually impeach Bush here. He's almost gone. HOWEVER, I do believe he should be tried in the world court for war crimes. He needs to be held accountable in some fashion if the US is ever to repair our standing with the rest of the world.
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Old 07-31-2008, 03:39 PM
 
29,939 posts, read 39,336,828 times
Reputation: 4798
Quote:
Originally Posted by KLDanford View Post
Payback for Bill Clinton? Um, no. how about the simple fact that Bush SHOULD by all rights be impeached and convicted? Have you been listening to the world around you? He is a WAR CRIMINAL.

Now, that said, I think it would not be cost effective or time-efficient to actually impeach Bush here. He's almost gone. HOWEVER, I do believe he should be tried in the world court for war crimes. He needs to be held accountable in some fashion if the US is ever to repair our standing with the rest of the world.

Only to people with short memories.
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Old 07-31-2008, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
20,170 posts, read 24,237,000 times
Reputation: 15284
Quote:
Originally Posted by KLDanford View Post
Payback for Bill Clinton? Um, no. how about the simple fact that Bush SHOULD by all rights be impeached and convicted? Have you been listening to the world around you? He is a WAR CRIMINAL.

Now, that said, I think it would not be cost effective or time-efficient to actually impeach Bush here. He's almost gone. HOWEVER, I do believe he should be tried in the world court for war crimes. He needs to be held accountable in some fashion if the US is ever to repair our standing with the rest of the world.
I think we need to Move On. Somebody should start a group to force Congress to get off this gotcha baloney and do somethng about trivial stuff like the war in Iraq, the economy, America's energy dependence and the high price of gas, and global climate change and -- you know, little stuff like that.

Maybe we could make it a popular web-based movement.

We could call it MoveOn.org...
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