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Instead of affirmative action, it would have been better for the government to offer low or no interest loans for black businesses, and for education. The white law firm continually beaten by a black lawyer, or the white business continually outclassed and beaten by a black business would have sought to hire black lawyers and managers, because of their proven abilities, rather than because they gained a tax advantage and bragging rights through affirmative action laws.
While I'm not in any way advocating AA, and I don't mean to offend anyone, but how exactly are financial subsidies different from quotas? The only difference I see is that the subsidies are funded by the government, while the quotas are not funded, merely enforced. Affirmative action as I understood it was about giving minorities the opportunity to both develop and prove their abilities in what was perceived as a very unlevel playing field. I do think the playing field has been leveled somewhat, but it's abundantly clear that statistically speaking black people are more vulnerable to poverty and all the corresponding problems including crime and violence, disease and hunger, and reduced access to education, insurance, and financial opportunities.
I don't think I advocated "forced" diversity, but I do think that colleges that try to enroll people from a multitude of cultures and walks of life are serving the values of education. This doesn't have to be an assertion of AA, but it does take a commitment from the school's admissions and financial aid programs to try to attract and enroll the best students possible with an eye to what they can contribute to AND what they can take away from the whole college experience. College isn't an extension of high school, much of the learning and skills development occurs outside the defined curriculum.
I didn't say you personally did advocate such. The opposite, in fact. I appreciate some of the things you say and agree with them.
And yes, colleges should try to enroll people from all walks of life and diverse backgrounds, etc. And they should be admitted or not upon their qualifications to meet the standards of admission. Regardless of their race. Fair and color blind. That is why AA is reverse discrimination in so many instances.
Jesus would probably tell the blacks to forgive and turn the other cheek (especially since they were never slaves)...even without an apology from the government.
Oh, I got the point. "Black people should be grateful for everything we have bestowed upon them, because goodness knows blacks have never fought for or earned the rights they have. They should just be happy singing and dancing and leave things like law and business to white people."
Oh, I got the point. "Black people should be grateful for everything we have bestowed upon them, because goodness knows blacks have never fought for or earned the rights they have. They should just be happy singing and dancing and leave things like law and business to white people."
Wow, I didn't read anything like that in any of Mircea's posts.
I think in fact that Mircea was saying that black people are more than able to compete with any other race of people, and that affirmative action only gives white people an excuse when they fail in a competition with a minority, an unfair excuse.
Mircea, I didn't mean to put words into your mouth. I was only saying how I read your posts.
I think in fact that Mircea was saying that black people are more than able to compete with any other race of people, and that affirmative action only gives white people an excuse when they fail in a competition with a minority, an unfair excuse.
No...I think that's what *you* just said. Big difference.
Oh, I got the point. "Black people should be grateful for everything we have bestowed upon them, because goodness knows blacks have never fought for or earned the rights they have. They should just be happy singing and dancing and leave things like law and business to white people."
MamaBee is right. You definitely missed the point of Mircea's post. Completely missed it.
You missed it because you didn't read it carefully enough or because you don't have enough background information to know what you read.
Last edited by laysayfair; 07-29-2008 at 03:36 PM..
Reason: typo
Someone just had to say it didn't they-I was alright happy to be off work, and now I hear this...I'll try and make this short.
This thing has affected me directly(adversely). Working for a company for 7 months, working with the most skilled, hardest workers in the company, gaining a solid reputation among the foreman. These same foreman telling management that they needed to "up" my salary and keep me. Another guy was hired to be in a different job classification than I was, after a week or two the ops mgr (same race as him) decided to put him over with us. All of my years working, I had never seen a lazier person in my life. I thought for sure this guy would've been fired in a day or two, surely he was kicked to us to break him. Well, even after 2 weeks of all the foreman asking for someone else, he remained. The closest foreman to me broke the news-Fri. is your last day. I said,"Oh they must be slowing down". No, they were only going to hire 1 and letting 5 of you go. I said "Oh, must be keeping the 1 from another dept." He said, no they're keeping that guy we've been trying to get rid of! WHAT!!!!!!!
I immediately went up to the highest manager and asked what was the deal? He asked me if I wanted Union Representation during the meeting, I said, no. He flat out told me "affirmative action" "It's nothing personal, I'm sure you'll find employment elsewhere. From what I hear, I'll be sorry to let you go"
They fired this guy after 3 weeks, called me and offered full reinstatement and full time position. In the end I lost the 7 months time. That same Ops Mgr found a little known clause in the contract, and "stole" 7 months from me. What does that mean to me? If I work here for thirty years, I'll work thirty years and seven months. She was fired for incompetence
Now I've been there for 6 years, I am a Foreman. I run all the skilled workers-some with over 25 yrs. and have been asked to come over to management. I sat on the contract last year with union reps and management. I can tell you that that little clause, no longer exists.
A person should be hired on their work ethic/ability or education if need be. I in no way support any hiring based on race.
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Affirmative Action
